MTF Örebro
MTF Örebro was MTF’s 18th event - a residence in academia at Örebro University from 17-19 October 2019.
It featured creative AI Innovation Labs held in the university’s Robotics Labs where the MTF experts worked with academics and local innovators to develop projects that connect creativity, dance, music production and performance, accessibility and artificial intelligence in a 3-day collaborative and interdisciplinary immersive event.
Michela Magas - MTF’s founder and director of the MTFLabs, AI professor Amy Loutfi, and music tech entrepreneur Niclas Molinder joined MTF director Andrew Dubber on stage at the final showcase to discuss the collaborations and interdisciplinary innovations that had taken place over the previous 48 hours.
AI Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ai, people, music, michela, universities, university, collaborate, collaboration, tech fest, mtf, students, event, entrepreneurship, amy, talking, research, disciplines, develop, understand, working
SPEAKERS
Amy Loutfi, Andrew Dubber, Michela Magas, Niclas Molinder
Andrew Dubber
Hi, I’m Dubber. I’m the director of Music Tech Fest, and this is the MTF podcast. We go so back MTF ran its 18th event in residence in academia at Örebro University. As part of that, we were in the university’s robotics labs where the invited MTF experts worked with academics and local innovators to develop projects that connect creativity, dance, music production and performance, accessibility and artificial intelligence in a three day collaborative and interdisciplinary immersive labs event. At the end of it all, we showcase the results in a series of live performances and demonstrations on stage. And to kick it all off, I brought several of the key people who made that whole thing possible together for a live discussion in front of an audience. And I recorded it for the podcast, we talked about collaboration between artists and scientists, entrepreneurship, the identity crisis of universities, the future of education, new frontiers of artificial intelligence, and why when it comes to creative innovation labs like this, more is better from MTF Örebro at Örebro University, this is MTF founder, Michela Magas, ai Professor Amy Loutfi, and music tech entrepreneur, Niclas Molinder. I want to start by asking you, Michela, why we’re here what the challenge is, and what it is we’re trying to achieve by being here?
Michela Magas
Well, we’re joining several brilliant minds in one place. And over is fantastic hosts that because they have taken the initiative to form the AI impact lab. So basically, they are looking at real applications of AI, they have a fantastic music school. So basically, they have all those sort of wonderful environments and and, and also the great talent that we can team up with and come up with new kinds of ideas, new kinds of applications, and we test drive all of those here on campus.
Andrew Dubber
So me what’s special about Örebro, that we should do it here,
Amy Loutfi
I think there are a couple of things that make Örebro special. One of them is that we have a university that’s very broad. So we have a lot of different disciplines. In Sweden, you know, you might have the technical universities. And then you might have universities that may be specialised in a few subjects, but we have like the whole palette. And this is sort of a perfect setting for combining things like AI and music together. Then the other thing that I think is special is that AI and music happen to also be strengths at the university. So there is a centre that works on AI and robotics. And there are researchers there and we have tried to bleed our research out into the real world. And then we have our music school, which has a long history in a strong reputation both in the city but also nationally.
Andrew Dubber
Okay, so Niclas, you and I have done this before. And we sat down and we had a podcast interview at South by Southwest, back in March. And at that point, you said we should do MTF here. What’s the journey been like to get it here? And has it kind of turned out how you thought it might?
Niclas Molinder
Oh, first, I mean, I’m new in this situation to collaborate with universities and the all the the government controlled comun and in the region of overdrew. But what what’s my strength is that I see a picture of how a collaboration can be made. And when we met and you told me what you were doing. And I was first i thought of Amy, of course, because as soon as someone says AI here, it’s her and university. I mean, wow, let’s bring in here and I live and breathe music. So that was for me, it was natural to do it here. And also I fight very hard for not that things should be done in other places than just the metropolitan areas in Sweden. Everything goes on in Stockholm. And there’s so much great things are in the whole country. So therefore, I really wanted to get you guys to come here and do it. And I mean, I don’t icrp and I we’ve been fighting so hard to make this happen. Because what I’ve learned for me as an entrepreneur and a songwriter, if I get an idea, let’s do this. We do it, it takes a week. I’ve learned when you do things here, it takes longer time. And so I’m so proud and happy that we managed to pull this off. And this is a perfect proof of that the university can collaborate with with the city of vertebral when there is a huge step forward for us here in blue. So for me this is Yeah, it’s exactly what I want it to be
Andrew Dubber
fantastic. Michela, I was going to ask you because I know we’ve done Music Tech Fest in Stockholm, and we’ve done Music Tech Fest in Umeå as well as other places around the world. But what’s different about Örebro that you’ve noticed in comparison to these other centres and Sweden
Michela Magas
Well, I mean, we had a brilliant experience, and everybody seems to be so in and on top of things, and, you know, I’m sort of used to kind of having to keep an eye on everything and sort of like turn around and go, Oh, that needs doing that doing that, you know, and, and all of a sudden, everything is done, like no, no has been taken care of, because I mean, everybody is really going to plugged in and focused. And actually, they’re really focusing on this particular event. And I think they are following it closely. They are really noticing the sort of breakthroughs, they’re noticing the moments of, were sort of where the collaboration is really kind of starting to work. I think they are getting some sort of at least the way I perceive it, they’re really getting some satisfaction out of it, which is a great pleasure to see. Because obviously, what we do is exactly for that purpose for the purpose of people realising the potential of collaboration of how much it can bring, how, you know, putting together all these people in one place becomes more than a sum of its parts. And I think it’s being recognised. And not everywhere we go that, you know, we don’t get this experience everywhere. There are some people who get it, but then you will also get those who are like being told that they need to deal with this bunch of weirdos or something. So, so when we do get some funny looks in places, and here, everybody gets it, which is fantastic.
Andrew Dubber
Well, let’s, let’s find out to the extent to which they get it. I mean, what’s it been like working with a bunch of weirdos?
Amy Loutfi
It’s been interesting, I can say, and I have to admit, I didn’t get it. At first it took it took a while, before I really got into it, I almost got a little bit of anxiety, because I was pushed outside of my comfort zone. And you know, I think like an engineer, I think like a person who is coming solely from technology, and to see how we can actually enrich both the technology, but also the use of technology through interaction with other disciplines. We talk about it a lot, but it’s a different thing to actually experience it and immerse yourself into it. So I think I will walk out of this, this event sort of having to digest a lot of what has happened over these past two, three days. And I’m pretty sure I will, I will appreciate it. You know, I look back and say, Wow, that was really cool. I was part of something very unique. And I think it’s also worth to mention, because both of Michela and Niclas mentioned something about it sort of working here working very smoothly. And really the big credit goes to Pia and her team Ruxandra, Mateus, and a lot of other people Aylin. And I know I’m missing a few names who have been just making sure that all the details are in place on the background. So I just want to say thank you on behalf of the University on behalf of all of us here for all of the effort that you’ve done.
Andrew Dubber
Absolutely. Niclas, it seems like the answer to this is because we like it. But is there a better answer to why should it be music that we bring to like an AI department? What is it about music that makes it a really good provocation for this idea?
Niclas Molinder
The first thought I got when you told me about the concept was that first, you know, music is part of every person’s life doesn’t matter where you are on the planet music affects you. And now when I mean AI is the expression AI is it’s what’s going on, everyone is talking about AI, but there’s so few people that really understand what it is, but everyone’s talking about it. And I don’t know so much I’m learning. But what I hear is also that AI is going to be something that’s also going to affect everyone on the planet. So I thought that the music match, because that’s affecting everyone and the AI because that’s also affects everyone. The match is perfect. And so that is for me was the first reaction. Wow. Yeah, this is the best reason or why bring it in here because we are strong in AI and we’re strong in music here. So that’s the perfect place of doing it.
Andrew Dubber
I’ve worked in universities before and I know that’s not always easy to get different departments from different viewpoints to collaborate so strongly. Well, were there any challenges in getting, you know, computer scientists working with music production and the music school? Or they just go Yeah, sure, we’ll pop over.
Amy Loutfi
No, I think we have some researchers who are so open minded and very engaged in working with other other disciplines. And I think the with the performance in the robot lab, that’s an example of a researcher Alessandro Saffioti, who has had you know, these these ideas of working together with music and other disciplines. I think the challenge, however, has been with our students, particularly the bachelor students, sort of getting them to understand that an education is really a lifelong experience. And it’s more than just coming to the course and and In passing your exams, that when you come to the University, you get the chance to interact with people from different, different areas. So there, I think we have a lesson to take with us after this to see how we can communicate better to those students. And it’s quite important not only, you know, for their own education, but it’s very important to inject as well some diversity into the field of engineering in the field of technology. And that’s, I think, something that, that we’ve also touched upon during this, this event.
Andrew Dubber
Ah - Michela, I know, you talk a lot about this, particularly at the sort of the European Commission level, but do you want to just give us a brief overview of how something like music and creativity brings diversity to something like computer science,
Michela Magas
and not just computer science, I think all of industry really, I mean, what we work on, and it has been actually recognised and has been accepted, we still have to prove it to them, you know, they have accepted this at policy, but basically, to put create cultural Creative Industries, as I now call it, but let’s just say creativity at the centre of industry innovation, is really, really important, because this particular field naturally operates across different sectors. So I mean, you know, you will find from the projects are going to be presented, there are sort of, they’re touching on areas of other kinds of industries. I mean, there’s that dance with robots, for instance, and stuff that you will see in a moment. It’s just one example. And it’s very, very typical for creative creativity to be working with all of these areas. When you need as you as Niclas has mentioned, AI is pervasive, it affects everyone, and for all kinds of reasons, not only because it affects everyone, but also because the data that’s required to train AI systems, well, belongs to various different stakeholders, they need to be united. And they don’t know how to collaborate, they don’t know how to come together. So creative processes that we run, tend to really create a seamless integration of all of these different stakeholders in one place in a space of common understanding. And we use of course, music as a social glue. They will all come You know, the biggest Nobel laureate will say to me, oh, I’m not going to an art event, because I don’t understand art. But if I say music, oh, yeah, don’t understand music, you know. So it’s really wonderful. Because you can get the best minds in the room as a result of saying, okay, we will just prototype with music, it’s very fast, it’s fun, it will be very quick, you will understand immediately its effect. And then we can see how that how we can take this to another sector and test drive it there. But first, we do it in this way and bring everybody together.
Andrew Dubber
This seems like a departure for universities or non for like this classroom teaching. There’s research, and there’s maybe some consultancy to industry, but very little of it is bringing these worlds together and you know, sort of everybody rolling their sleeves up and making things together. Is this something that university should be doing more of? Do you think this is a toe in the water? And it hasn’t been what you sort of expected?
Amy Loutfi
I think, yes. So, you know, universities have often three directives, right. The first is education, and then there’s research. And then there’s collaboration. And collaboration usually is is is made to serve the needs of the first two. And it’s very essential that collaboration is not only just with, with industry, but with the general public, and also collaboration between each other. And I think Finally, you know, we’re also getting recognition for collaboration, because normally, in that traditional University world, you know, the number of hours you teach is a merit, the number of papers you publish is a merit. But we also have to give credit to those who are very good at collaborating with each other. So I think this is something we’re going to see more and more of, and if we really want to make our research relevant, we have to find those who can make use of it. So this is this is fundamental to the existence of universities. Now, with that said, I also think universities are kind of going through a small identity crisis, partly because of technology, partly because we’re seeing that education can be given in different ways that is breaking those barriers of that traditional classroom interaction. We’re seeing that what counts as research is not that traditional view of research anymore, that we and we’ve seen examples where that creative process actually could lead to a very good paper in the top AI conference. So I think universities need to be a bit faster at catching up and modernising and that’s a challenge for our old institutions. But the the silver lining is that there are young universities like ours ours, that are, you know, in a good position to do that quick adaptation,
Andrew Dubber
because the other push that’s a really big driver for particularly young universities, when they’re talking about innovation is entrepreneurship, and the idea of connecting out to a community of entrepreneurs and an ecosystem. And and Niclas, that’s something that you’re very involved in. It’s not just that you’re just not not just the guy from the music industry. You’re also the guy from the entrepreneurship community and startup ecosystem locally. How can those worlds come together?
Niclas Molinder
There’s so so much we can do here. And again, as Amy said, That’s that, how long time the different sides needs to do things. As startup, an entrepreneur that starts the company, the only mindset is to get it make it happen as soon as possible. And we talking that hours can be long sometimes. And and that is so important that we collaborate, because what they’re doing here is so amazing, and so good. But I think that it’s actually more or less a social experiment. And as you said, you were out of your comfort zone. And I think that’s good for people to get out of the comfort zone. Because if you do the same thing as all over and you know, all day long, you just get stucked in something and but if you get people together, and that’s what I hope for the outcome from this event that we can look back, and maybe not say like that was because of MTF. But people meet new networking people meet people that they never, ever would have met, if it not was for this event. And I hope that that is what’s gonna, you know, we’re going to remember this as a good outcome for for what’s been going on, of course, but new meetings, new people that never would have met if it wasn’t for for, for this. So to bring entrepreneurs in closer to the university. And, and that is something that we from what I’m working here in Örebro with entrepreneurship and startups, this is something that I really, really would like to continue working with the university so we can get closer. And we Amy and I had a discussion the other day, and I said, Yeah, bring your people in come to our place. And this is something that we need to work on to that we share, you know, the University needs to come out in the city as well. And we come here, then we can find a really good collaboration.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, I think I think this idea of taking things further and taking and progressing them is a really interesting one, because I don’t as much as I love this. And as much as I’d love to doing this. I don’t want to come back and do it again. What I want to do is come back and do whatever the next thing is, what do you think the next thing might look like? What would you want this to develop further into? Michela you want to start.
Michela Magas
So I’m still sort of trying to digest everything that’s happened in the last sort of 48 hours and bearing in mind that some people have even sort of joined us last night. You know, and they have managed to produce a new kind of direction and technology. Since, you know, I’m still so slightly overwhelmed and digesting what just
Andrew Dubber
dealing with the next day.
Michela Magas
But, but in terms of the next thing, I would like to see more people for motor bro. So more from the sort of community and more students from even from other departments. So it can be departments that specialise in humanities or in entrepreneurship or in or some some of the sort of music students could also actually be present in prototyping some AI things because, as we will see shortly, it’s very informative. So of course, the more the merrier, because I think everybody will get get a takeaway, and I think it will be really worth the people here. Or those who can stay later and who don’t have three family obligations, to really talk to the participants and understand what the each participant got out of it. Because I think you’ll find they’re all they all have individual takeaways from this. I have spoken to lots of them, and I’m getting, you know, slightly overwhelmed with with it with the feedback and it’s really wonderful. As well as the sort of partnerships and the sort of friendships and and sort of how much some people have got attached to each other through this process. I think I think I saw some sort of feedback from some of the people in the trackers on even that they were kind of, I don’t know, I think the expression was they were flying in the room or something together on some such thing. And I think they’re probably gonna probably tell us about it everyday was this this kind of thing as well as sort of hysterical moments where everybody seemed to be on the same page and everybody has the same sense of humour. So last night versus Celine Xu who came over from Axel Johnson to show us recommender systems that they are designing for the biggest retailer, one of the biggest retailers in Sweden. And of course, Italy, we started to discuss how these kind of poured over to other areas. And of course, one of the kind of hysterical things was one of the participants said, can you use it for dating? And of course the answer was, yeah, of course. You can say, Well, people who dated this person knows what they did. So we had, we had we have, you know, this this kind of a team spirit and camaraderie that develops so quickly though. I mean, no, she literally just kind of came off the train and joined us. And basically, you know, this is how fast it happens. So, the more the merrier. If we can get more people to understand the benefit of this spirit that is created between these different people coming together, I think they will benefit from it.
Andrew Dubber
To grow it. Amy, what about you? What’s next for you?
Amy Loutfi
Yeah, I think, you know, if we were to do this again, definitely, you know, more students, I think, to really involve our students would be fantastic. And just like Michela saying students from all walks of life, you know, also, I, I think we needed more time, it would have been great to have more time to develop the ideas. And I think a next step would be just that to be able to really sit and develop, then I was speaking with my colleagues at the research centre, and we realised perhaps a little bit too late. But we realised that one of the unique selling points as you would call it, at for the university is the robot lab. And it would be very nice to integrate more, not only AI, but more robotics as well into a continued theme. Fantastic.
Andrew Dubber
Okay. And, Niclas, what’s your ambition for next,
Niclas Molinder
not, if we’re gonna do it next time, when we’re gonna do it the next time for me. So of course, do it again. And as an entrepreneur scale, we can scale it a bit, make it bigger. And I also I agree with you aiming for we have today around 20 startup companies in blue, that are working on a daily basis with AI. But they didn’t really understood what was supposed to go on going on here. So we need more time to get them to understand that even if you’re not working with music on a daily basis, what we do here can actually help them in what they do in on a daily basis. So more local startup companies to be part of this as well. And we have 20 today, and next year, probably we will have at least 10 more. So more companies, and scales. So in sustainability for events like this, we need not one time, at least three four times, because then we can really see the outcome. Just do it one time, it’s not fair, we need to do it more.
Andrew Dubber
Right. I’m going to say, from my perspective, working really closely with the trackathon, one thing I’m going to take away from this is just the sheer calibre of the work that’s being produced here in Örebro. The the kind of the quality of music that’s being made by these students, the quality of thinking that’s going on at this university, is just phenomenal. Michela What are you taking away with you from here?
Michela Magas
Much the same, really. So I mean, everything, you know, collaborating with the staff and the students here on the AI side, you know, ai plus music side. So, you know, the, again, it has been really everything has been really, really high level, I mean, we’re about to kind of show all looking at different ideas. And then of course, you know, it’s just wonderful because it this this is, as Niclas has said, a small, small one. And normally we kind of run over five days. So we can actually take those ideas even further, and they can integrate them together. And this is what we want to do next time. But also the other thing is that the collaborations that started here will definitely continue versus the Darcy AI and AI robot. So at the AI drama team that have come together. One from the MTF, community and one from herb row. I think they are going to continue this collaboration, it’s very clear because it there’s some such a synergy. And there’s such wonderful research directions that are coming out of this. I mean, I I kind of had a hunch about that when I kind of figured out who should kind of be talking to him. But But of course, it’s down to two people at the end of the day and the fact that they get on and the fact that they really understand each other. And then these projects develop in between what I call these these kinds of events like acupuncture points, they have such high levels of energy, you can’t sustain that on a daily basis, you really dedicate yourself to them. Everybody kind of raises one notch up in their understanding of things. And then they can take time to develop their knowledge and their thinking in their research directions or their artistic directions. And then we come back together and take them to the next level with another kind of injection. So that’s really the way that that that We work and this is the way that we should work. So having said that, Darcy AI was came together at Kota Hall last year. So basically, it’s some of the knowledge that’s being ported to Örebro now started at quarter one as knowledge that’s been generated in autopro. Obviously, it will be taken, not just at the next orebro event, but also showcase, for instance, in Frankfurt in in March or April, April, is it? etc. So, so we are spreading this knowledge as well.
Andrew Dubber
Amy, I’m gonna give you the last word up on the screen as the phrase AI plus music equals true, I’m guessing that came from you. That’s right. Can you tell us what it meant, and maybe what it means to you now,
Amy Loutfi
maybe it’s not so good to express things that result only in Boolean values of true and false somebody will say I’m not so neat, nuanced, but I thought it was a very nice way to sort of express our ambitions and put it in a way that was also relatable to maybe some of our students who are in computer science and other technical disciplines. But I mean, the you know, in Swedish, you usually when you say that, two people have a crush or like each other you have this, you know, name one plus name two equals sunt. Right is the same and kind of also is inspired this particular slogan, where it’s not only AI and music, but there’s a little bit of love in there, too.
Andrew Dubber
This seems like a really great place to leave it. Michela, Amy, Niclas, thanks so much for your time today.
Niclas Molinder
Thank you.
Amy Loutfi
Thank you.
Andrew Dubber
Michela Magas, my guest Professor Amy Loutfi and Niclas Molinder recorded at the closing showcase at the recent MTF at Örebro University. And that’s the MTF podcast, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Feel free to drop us a note and say hi, we’re pretty easy to find. It’s just Music Tech Fest on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. And of course, you can subscribe to the podcast, you can rate review, like, share, tell people you know, and there are loads more episodes in the back catalogue full of interesting people and fascinating topics around innovation, creativity, technology, music, and lots more, feel free to dive back through and have a listen to some of those. In the meantime, have a great week, and we’ll talk soon. Cheers.
