Deirdre Nelson - Arctic Crafts
Deirdre Nelson is an Irish textiles artist and designer based in Scotland. She has been working with the Circumpolar Crafters Network, alongside Inuit and Sami traditional craftspeople, learning to make things from the natural resources around them in the harsh environments of the very far north. She believes that we can learn important lessons about who we are, how we can live in the world and what our legacy can be from these ways of working and living - and that goes especially for hackers, makers and electronic artists.
AI Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, textiles, suppose, crafters, craft, seal, technology, traditional, culture, materials, tech fest, terms, work, tradition, world, music, community, mtf, projects, deirdre
SPEAKERS
Deirdre Nelson, Andrew Dubber
Andrew Dubber
Hi, I’m Dubber. I’m the director of Music Tech Fest, and this is the MTF podcast. Something that’s a huge part of the culture of the MTF community is that of making you hear the word maker associated with hackers, programmers and builders of technology, but making and crafting is so deeply woven into human tradition. It’s part of who we are. So as it happens, MTF founder Michela was talking late last week with Fredric Baas. He’s a curator at the Design Museum in Den Bosch in the Netherlands. And they were chatting about the problems that you get with a lot of art that’s a sensibly about technology and innovation. He’d been to see a particular exhibition, and he said something that was just really interesting, and that I want to share with you with His permission. He said, I wasn’t very impressed. I’d seen a lot of those pieces earlier this year in Rotterdam. And not surprisingly, since some of the same organisations are involved. But what struck me then, and now is that most projects adopt a certain sci fi techno aesthetic, especially if artefacts are involved. Combined with everything being very literal, the object installation is a single resultant, which makes most things on view quite one dimensional, although the works tend to be explorative. The speculative aspect suffers because of this, those projects seem to be merely illustrating a point or concept, and not to reflect on societal impact and such and quote, and, you know, I really like that idea that to talk about technology, about artefacts and our place in the world, and to reflect on societal impact of our tools and technologies and our ability to communicate across the globe. It doesn’t have to be all robots and holograms. In fact, there’s something really evocative and dare I say it confrontational, about something that comes from the other end of the spectrum. And I say confrontational because we’re pushing towards 50 episodes of this podcast. And this interview was probably the one that’s made me the most uncomfortable since we started doing it. You might hear a little of that my voice along the way. So Deirdre Nelson is an Irish artist designer. Based in Glasgow. She studied textiles at Glasgow School of Art in 1992, and a M. Phil in 1996. She’s exhibited internationally and undertaken, residencies both in the UK and Australia, and most recently has been engaged in a project called the circumpolar crafters network. Now, if you’re a little squeamish, a fair warning, there’s a fairly robust description of the use of what you might call traditional materials, like the insides of seals and bits of reindeer, but it’s a fascinating story and an incredibly rich way of exploring ideas about how what we make connects with who we are, what impact we have on our world, and what society can become. But also we talk about electronic music generated from knitting patterns, addressing waste and consumerist societies, veganism and how we can bridge that divide between traditional crafts and hacker coder culture. From our recent visit to Expo North in Scotland. Here’s my chat with Deirdre Nelson, enjoy. Deirdre - Tell me what is the circumpolar crafters network?
Deirdre Nelson
circumpolar crafters network was something that was put together by the Nunavut government, they decided that they wanted to do a project which will promote sealing or in the use of seal products for craft. So they brought together crafters from Estonia, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Nunavut in Canada, so and we managed to sneak in an Irish woman and a Scottish woman.
Andrew Dubber
But generally the idea is north.
Deirdre Nelson
Yes, the idea is looking north and seeing what we, I suppose we share in terms of craft skills and use of indigenous materials,
Andrew Dubber
right. So why is it important to continue to use seal as a material?
Deirdre Nelson
Well, it’s a huge part of tradition, first of all, and culture in your communities. And also, it’s very sustainable way of working people make garments that last them a lifetime, that keeps them warm, and really extreme temperatures. And no sort of manufactured material can match that in terms of warmth, people make boots and jackets that last them for all their lives. When the seal is hunted, it’s hunted very quickly and humanely. And it also every little bit of the animals used so everything from the sinews inside to not want to get too gory. But so in terms of there’s nothing thrown away really
Andrew Dubber
right, because when you hear seal hunting, that’s not what you picture.
Deirdre Nelson
No. And I think there’s been a lot of media coverage and through the years of seal hunting and seal and culling and all sorts but I think the in terms of the Inuit community, it’s a particular type of seal that the and it’s part of a, I suppose part of an ecosystem where there is You know, the, the, the, there’s huge numbers of these animals and people are keeping obviously keeping the animal numbers under control and the the ecosystem or the sort of level. And I think so many of the campaigns have been maybe slightly misguided. They’re talking about different types of seals, maybe more endangered animals, and they’re not representing the culture tradition of people at all right?
Andrew Dubber
And so that the whole idea is it’s around culture and culture and tradition, but very much about making things and it’s not just about making things in the traditional way there It seems like from from what I’ve seen, that there are people doing some quite innovative things.
Deirdre Nelson
Yes, there’s a lot of well, particularly in the circumpolar, we got together and with the network, and we worked with materials from all the different places so you know, you had Inuit women making Inuit boots, but using reindeer hide or Scottish wool or so people were starting to experiment in different ways. But there’s a lot of the younger and newer makers are making bikes contemporary contemporary garments that one girl had made sealskin trousers that you would see on a catwalk show a young designer. So there’s a lot of innovative things are happening and people using it in different ways. So it’s not only about the traditional jackets or boots that the new would wear. So
Andrew Dubber
a lot of people when when you hear maker you think of, particularly in Music Tech Fest community, you think of people using electronics, or you think of people sort of repurposing things to make new inventions, but the maker movement as it is really has been going on for centuries, I guess the sort of the crafter element of it, what sort of place does that have in culture
Deirdre Nelson
suppose that people have always made in terms of necessity, you know, in all over the world, really, I mean, I suppose I know a lot about Irish or Scottish craft, but people have always made to and particularly textiles, which is, you know, most circumpolar crafters networks area, is people of textiles have always been made to sleep on to set on to, you know, cover your animals to, to live in. And so a huge part of culture to make things out of necessity. And I suppose as time has gone on, people are making them more as, you know, it’s a luxury luxury item to be able to buy, you know, a beautiful seal skill handbag, or, but you know, people have and still do, and many communities still do make for em, functionalities boots for everyday life. And, you know, we talk about making money in terms of the cultures that I met through the circumpolar crafters network, you know, a lot of making of textile to sewing and weaving in terms of some of the things that have gone on in Scotland and, and then the a lot of the craft, particularly in Sami culture, the men make a lot of things from wood and reindeer horn, and it’s very much about using materials that are random and materials that are very particular to their landscape and place.
Andrew Dubber
I guess that that making things as part of culture is not unique to the north, what is it that connects these northern places that makes them sort of stand apart from where other things are made in the world?
Deirdre Nelson
I think maybe it’s the access to materials are different. I suppose there’s limited resources and lots of ways, particularly when you go much farther north. So people are, you know, they work with what they’ve got, or what they have access to environments. Yeah, harsh environments. And and I suppose, you know, when I think of some of the Scottish traditions of making where there may be wouldn’t be even words on some of the islands because there’s no trees. And you know, and I’m sure it’s the same in Arctic communities where you’re very, it’s a very particular way of making that is about being extremely resourceful and not throwing anything away. So you’re using what you have access to and in quite harsh environments, like, this seems
Andrew Dubber
to be in my mind, there’s a rhythmic element to particularly stitching or these these sort of repetitive craft works. Is there a musical connection there? Or is that just something I’m projecting?
Deirdre Nelson
Well, em, I’m not quite interested. We’re all very interested in music myself. And I think there’s there’s definitely a read them to certain things like I do a lot of knitting. And I think with knitting, I’ve always wanted to work with a composer to do something based on the side of knitting and, and also even the design of sewing, it seems like something that’s very quiet activity, but particularly watching some of the women working they work with, well, neither didn’t work with the sinew of the seal, but they work with a sort of wax a new thread. And it’s actually quite a tough process because you’re going through for leather. So there’s a sort of like rasping sign, does it pull up thread and you know, so there’s a lot of, yeah, it’s repetition and rhythm, and I suppose, depending on the type of stitch they’re doing or the type of material that they’re working through, and can make particular signs but also the thing that happened on the circumpolar crafters network was realised the tradition of singing in the cultures of some of the women were throat singing while they were singing. And while they were singing while they were sewing, and the Sami women were working for us, and that was fantastic. Sadly, I didn’t have anything to contribute myself in terms of music or show you
Andrew Dubber
come from a singing background.
Deirdre Nelson
Well, I could sing but not for anybody. But I’m sure I could sing along but, um, that you know very much about the sort of, particularly newer throat singing about the fun of and community of people being together. And, and, and the yoiking, which is very much about gifting someone a song, and it was in the same way she’d gift them something that was handmade. So suppose there’s many crossovers.
Andrew Dubber
What’s your story? What’s your background? How did you start? And all this? Were you learning as a child?
Deirdre Nelson
Yeah, I’ve I can’t remember not knowing how to sew or net, I think I must have done it when I was very small. And my grandmother, and my auntie were very good. And my, my mom at that time made clothes. And so I thought, okay, where was this? In Ireland, we were up in Northern Ireland, and a place called bambridge lived for quite a while and, and so the, you know, it was part of life related to these things. And, you know, I remember Santa Claus bringing me in fabric and thread. So I was delighted. And but yeah, I’ve always sort of been interested in making so and then carry that on, and then went to art school and went to Glasgow School of Art and study textiles. And then, where I’ve worked a lot with different communities. I do a lot of artists residences, and what’s
Andrew Dubber
that interest to actually sort of not just kind of make things and sell them as as many people who go to art school the textiles will eventually do, there’ll be the sort of become makers and crafters, and then they sell their work. And that’s kind of the end of the story. But you seem to have branched out and to go, Well, how can this connect up to tradition, culture, and, you know, different parts of the world? what sparked that?
Deirdre Nelson
I think, well, when I first left art school, I started doing, you know, often it’s quite hard to survive as an artist and I started doing a lot of work in schools and with health centres and and through that, I suppose I’ve learned a lot about so many different types of people and then had the opportunity to work in education for a little while, and then had the opportunity to work with an artist residency, there was a lot of a lot more artists residency, so we’re starting to emerge and I realised that I could match that interest in people with skills and, or the skills I had or could develop. And then also, I love travelling, so any opportunity to go anywhere that I could learn about new cultures and very interested in social history. So so the history of places and trade, particularly textile history, and textiles have travelled all over the world and trade and sometimes terrible histories. textiles been, you know, traded for slaves and the slaves moved on to you know, there’s been a lot that’s happened. threes are quite a powerful thing. textiles in terms of what they’ve done in the world, or the economics of textiles as well.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, absolutely. Because, I mean, I was gonna say it’s the fabric of so many things, but it literally it’s the fabric of the thing. Yeah. And, and that the world is kind of made out of, yeah, these things and these objects that we, you know, we use every day, and we, you know, wear every day and those sorts of things. So they’re, it’s not just about, I guess a lot of people think about things that we make are things that we use, but there’s so deeply embedded into our lives, that they almost become invisible and part of what we are, yeah, so I guess there’s this kind of the question is, does it shape who we are, to do the the textiles that we use, or the you know, for instance, the seal slippers that you were speaking about? Does that kind of shape who we become or how we work or how we live?
Deirdre Nelson
think so I think candy and also the, you know, suppose one of the things I’ve learned through being part of the circumpolar crafters network is that we can also by wearing or using these things, we can also shift the lives of other people around us and but not in a sort of campaigning aggressive way, but in a way of gentle sort of discussion about, you know, the issues around materials, I think we take a lot of materials that we wear for granted, we you know, we don’t know where our clothes are made. We mean, I think people are starting to change, they’re beginning to think differently, but, you know, the throwaway culture of textiles that are, you know, just that are hardly worn and then thrown away or that end up in, you know, someone in Africa wearing clothes that we’ve thrown it in, you know, and or end up in landfill and you know, and I think textiles are really put much more important to think than people give them credit for you know, in terms of like there’s a lot that can be done through textile production, and rethinking this our own behaviours, I think, yeah.
Andrew Dubber
is in that in that context, with with Like a lot of innovation has led to a lot of waste. Yeah, is the kind of move towards innovation compatible with a desire to sort of preserve traditions and in this kind of circular approach to, to economies?
Deirdre Nelson
I mean, I think people are, I think it’s changing and people are beginning to there’s people working in sort of innovative ways with circular economy, but I suppose there’s a lot more that could be done. And I think that the yet it’s barely I sometimes think it’s an earlier better re education of people in some ways, we nearly need, you know, psychologists to come in and get us to rethink our consumption. And it’s much bigger thing than just, you know, the cloth we put in our but we need to really educate ourselves. And I think there are companies doing amazing things with, you know, using less water using, I suppose technologies to help produce much more ethical or on a social media. And, you know, the internet has really helped in terms of educating people and people that set up groups that are all about, about that, and about repair and involved in a repair lab, or repair cafe in Glasgow. And that’s an amazing way to talk to people about Hi, they use their to our high they repair their textiles or, and so I suppose there’s Yeah, the interesting things going along. And technology supports that. And a lot of ways,
Andrew Dubber
there’s a lot of talk about wearable technologies to now what could people who build wearable technologies learn from traditional crafters
Deirdre Nelson
am? I think, I mean, sometimes some of the things that I find in terms of wearable technology is sometimes the crafted element or the, you know, the, say, embedded textiles enclosed or things, sometimes the, there’s a little bit of the craft element missing, they still come across as something very digital and very, I think this could be a lot of very interesting collaborations where you work with really, you know, very, very skilled crafts people that Imagine if you could make a seal jacket that had embedded technology that would help hunter in Nunavut, or, you know, a family and, you know, living in the Arctic or so I think there’s probably ways more could be done, where people work together. But you know, very established, you know, skilled crafts people,
Andrew Dubber
as far as the innovation side of things going and one of the things that we were talking about earlier, before we started this interview, where you’re talking about your embroidery, and the idea of connecting and white embroidery with music, you know, tell me a little bit about how you go about that?
Deirdre Nelson
Yeah, well, I’ve had an idea for a while maybe to, you know, it would be fantastic if you could create a sort of objects or clothing that was very bit embedded very much in tradition of a culture or are skilled, and then work alongside maybe technology in some ways. So either that could be linked with signed or music or something that gives a suppose in a way a bigger picture of the story, because, you know, it’s talking about textiles sometimes are taken for granted, and you look at something and think it’s decorative, but what if that decorative piece of embroidery then could tell a story through through music, through link maybe with, you know, a traditional musician, or it could be storytelling or something that enriches I think it could really enrich that experience. And I don’t know enough about the technologies, but you know, maybe I don’t know, could you do something that was heat censored? Or the change? Or, you know, I suppose that’s sometimes they they’re very separate the very traditional, you know, sort of indigenous skills seem very separate to the technological side of things. So it’d be really nice if there’s some way you could marry, marry both.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah. And it does seem to me that things like embroidery patterns and knitting patterns and those sorts of things that seem to be programming manuals. Yes, very much. This is real kind of similar way of thinking. Yeah. Built into that. Is that I mean, I guess it’s very much a kind of a traditionally a women’s craft. Yeah. As is programming. Yeah. And those those things sort of had this kind of connecting thread. Do you think it’s still possible to kind of connect those worlds in much the same way, sort of traditional crafters and contemporary sort of electronics makers and those sorts of things?
Deirdre Nelson
Yeah, I think so. I think, because there’s so much about I mean, I know a few people here doing some interesting things. Just one guy, David Littler. He’s working with punch cards from knitting patterns and sewing patterns. And he’s actually working through making music machines that you can put these punch cards through so he and he’s very interested in songs that are connected. There’s a lot of very old traditional songs and music connected with textiles, particularly in Scotland, but a lot of the mills all over the UK would have had very traditional songs that were sung millworkers would have song or or women working with tweet would have So he’s doing some interesting things with the punch cards. And, and there’s a suppose there’s a, there’s a sort of coding to, you know, people who don’t net would read look at a knitting pattern and it’s code. And a lot of the really good knitters, particularly older knitters don’t think they’re doing anything special, but they’re reading code there. And it’s, it’s amazing how, you know, I something can be produced from something, as you know, and I’m sure it’s the same, I haven’t done much weaving but, and weaving is code as well and a lot of mathematics involved and patterns. And so I’m doing a little bit of work with musician Ingrid Thompson, where she’s we’ve taken her grandmother’s old, and pattern books from Faroe Islands, Scotland, and she plays the accordion battle. Anger plays the accordion, and also does sort of electronic music and looping and things. So she’s composing music based on some of the knitting patterns and the punch card. So which is very much the tradition of Faroe Islands where she’s from. So that’s an example of notice, yeah, there’s few people looking at looking at those areas textiles, and
Andrew Dubber
would that make sense in the context of the circumpolar crafters network, I mean, with that sort of approach to craft be welcomed, and that kind of circle?
Deirdre Nelson
I think so because I think it could be a way of really, we spoke a little bit in our talk about, you know, how you educate people in how you and I think, to create contemporary work that brings in different audiences. So if you may be, you know, had some technology, say embedded in something that one of the crafters had made that then I don’t know, I’m just thinking off the top of my head, but linked with screams are linked with music or culture, historical information, it can be an amazing way to get across quite a, you know, disposes quite a contentious topic, people, you know, and I suppose, as the world assumes around me, so many more people are becoming vegan and becoming less sort of animal focused. So I think there’s probably there needs to be think, or you need to think of ways that you can make something which is contemporary and relevant with some of the crafters work. So I think that would really, it would be fantastic way of doing it.
Andrew Dubber
Because it does seem very much, particularly from our community’s perspective, there’s a lot of people who do programming, a lot of people who do building things with electronics and microboards. And these sorts of things. And a lot of them do work in a lot of them do knitting and embroidery and so on. But those do seem very much still very separate worlds. And it seems like a fantastic opportunity to bring these people who are essentially doing an extension of the same thing, bringing them together in this traditional world and bridging the old and the new and what do you think it’s the kind of the, the right way to go about that?
Deirdre Nelson
I don’t know. I mean, maybe we need to circumpolar lab or something. And you know, I was involved in a lab in Glasgow and forgotten the name of now, but they brought together coders and makers together and we did separate projects and and it was amazing way to work because we realised in loads ways we work very similar way I mean, I think there’s a real craft to you know, working with, you know, coding and working with an Arduino and all of these things and through being involved in the repair lab in Glasgow, I realised that you know, I’d watch some of these guys fix computers and an electronic you know, they they’re working with their hands and I’m really skilled way and I know you know, particularly something like embroidery is very fine tuned skills and I can see those same skills in the guys working on circuit boards or so I think maybe some maybe we need to do a circumpolar tech, traditional skill lab or something would be fantastic.
Andrew Dubber
Sounds like something Music Tech Fest should check out yeah,
Deirdre Nelson
definitely will be a very amazing because and, and also just I think with any of these things, you need time to experiment. So you know, just under in formality of say, the way we worked in the circumpolar crafters network would be a really lovely way to work with technology as well. We worked in the lab in Glasgow with a guy called john says Nick, he does a lot of beautiful work with technology and music. And he am we reprogrammed a sewing machine to sew by itself to music. So when people saying the sewing machine worked, and it was he was looking at data from a singer in Glasgow that had done a piece of work and so whenever any of her music was played, or people made bird signs it was to do with birds, she and the sewing machine started and began to sew the costumes for the for the performance so and that just came through experimental lab type setup. So she was fantastic.
Andrew Dubber
What’s the satisfaction for you? Is it the main object? Is it the recipient of the main object? Is it in the giving or is it in the selling or is it in the back the actual activity itself,
Deirdre Nelson
I think it’s combination of everything and not so much the selling. And I suppose the way I work is much more in art projects rather than Where’s a lot of the other. And networkers they work very much to market, you know, they’re making products. And so for me, it’s, it’s the making, but also it’s the welfare work or working collaboratively with something, it’s that sort of exchange that happens. It’s really interesting. And, and I prefer, I suppose more and more with some of the projects have done quite like to gift the work at the end. And so that it’s, it’s got another life beyond the so but then I suppose I’ve mainly worked in residences, which have been very different than producing to, to market, but I think it’s a combination of everything really, and just seeing what can happen with materials. And I don’t think I could make the same thing over and over and over it, you know, it’s, it’s quite a sort of process, things change. So,
Andrew Dubber
what’s a good way to start? Somebody is thinking that this is kind of interesting territory, where do I begin? What would you suggest,
Deirdre Nelson
I would try to think, maybe join a local craft group, or an or get a group of friends to get sometimes that’s a nice way just to do something, get a group of people together that are interested in making. And also I think, social media, and technology has a brilliant part to play because I know I can, you know, through Instagram, I can find people that are doing the most amazing things and contact them and you know, say, Oh, you know, do you fancy working on this together. But also, I think YouTube has been taught to see if you’re for a lot of crafts people, because people that are just learning can look on YouTube. And on YouTube, there’ll be a demonstration for everything from, you know, probably technological things to, you know, to doing a particular embroidery stitch or learning to net or making something. And so I think that’s maybe a find your community, suppose it’s find your community or your network in a way around you.
Andrew Dubber
Because when we think about knitting, and sewing and needlework, and so on, we kind of think of it as a very solitary activity. But the way you talk about it, it sounds incredibly social.
Deirdre Nelson
Yeah. Well, I mean, I do a lot of baking on my own. And sometimes I like that. But I think it’s a very social thing. And I think it’s become, I’ve noticed more and more over probably the last 10 years. And again, a lot of it’s to do with social media is that so many younger crafters are starting people that maybe didn’t go to art school or didn’t study there. But they’re, I don’t know what it is. But sometimes I think, Oh, is it because there’s so much technology around and so much screen race things that people are feeling the need to get back to using their hands again, and but I’ve noticed that there’s so much so many more people getting involved. I so
Andrew Dubber
and I have a network.
Deirdre Nelson
Yes. And I’ve got a new exciting, circumpolar network. Yeah.
Andrew Dubber
Fantastic theory. Thanks so much for your time. That’s Irish textiles artists Deirdre Nelson. And that’s the MTF podcast. And in case you’re wondering, yes, of course, we’re thinking a lot about what she said about a circumpolar lab for joining the dots between high tech and traditional skills are a fantastic idea. So if you want to be part of making that happen, or to get involved in some of our upcoming events, about which more very soon, then you can register on the MTF website, Music Tech Fest dotnet slash register. And in the meantime, if you haven’t already subscribed, we’ve tried to make that really easy for you just click the subscribe button. And don’t forget to share, like rate and review. Thanks for listening. And we’ll talk soon Cheers.
