Andrew Robertson - Reality Producer
Andrew Robertson is an executive producer for entertainment company Very Nice TV. He’s worked on Big Brother, Robot Wars, Antiques Roadshow and a lot more besides. He weighs in on the practical ethics of reality television, the value of the BBC, how terrible (and how wonderful) TV people can be, the trouble with X-Factor that you may not have thought of - and how we tell stories in an age where there are other screens to look at.
AI Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, talking, bbc, story, watch, andrew robertson, shows, netflix, brilliant, television, reality, real, music, amazing, scotland, realise, tv, telly, world, cinema
SPEAKERS
Andrew Robertson, Andrew Dubber
Andrew Dubber
Hi, I’m Dubber. I’m the director of Music Tech Fest, and this is the MTF podcast. We’re going to be diving into the world of telly today. The connecting thread between Robot Wars. Big Brother, and antique roadshow is executive producer Andrew Robertson from independent UK production company Very Nice TV. I met up with him at Expo North the creative industries conference in Inverness to talk about the stories we tell the media we use what’s at stake when we do that, the real value of the BBC and the problem with X factor that you might not have thought of, here’s Andrew Robertson. Andrew, you’re from the world of television. Yeah, ultimately, what led you there?
Andrew Robertson
Well, I certainly wasn’t I came late to Telly I am I sort of a strong believer to this day about the the life experience rather than the people have media degrees and Telly. So my I was about 28. And I done other things that I should be a sound engineer. I don’t not stuff and I, I lived in London at time and I met there was a live thing going on. And this is exciting, look, they’re doing telly, and I got talking to some women that worked there. And then she gave me one day’s work experience. So it’s great. How’d you do telly? It was amazing. And she was if you’re interested come in, you know, next week. And so I did one day, they brought me back the next day. So I was there. But I was literally the most excited person you’ve ever seen in a job, I felt Oh my god, this is this is what I want to do. So that that two days went a week, a week was a month and that. So as a runner, so that was that was how I started and that’s to this day, they, they haven’t got rid of me yet.
Andrew Dubber
Right. And now you’re a producer, I think I know what a director does, what does a producer do?
Andrew Robertson
So my job, I’m sort of executive producer, the difference being that the buck stops somewhere on a project, obviously, everything’s different, you’ll see a lot of American shows where they’ll have executive producer is the star of the show, and what you’ll realise that that’s a kind of vanity credit, they that’s part of the contract, they’ll get that there’ll be like an exec producer, where’s my job is, will be pretty comprehensive from from start to finish. So it could be it could be coming up the idea and the show, we’ve got a moment, you know, there’s two of us in the company. So we he shot all of actually indirectly, he’s a brilliant director. And so a lot of it on in this case was him, you know, dealing with the directing, but me dealing with the channel, you know, cutting the shows, and ultimately being the last thing when, when something goes wrong, it’s made up in jail, you know, so you call the shots. But you also take responsibility for everything that happens on a production,
Andrew Dubber
right. But presumably, there’s some, there’s some upside as well,
Andrew Robertson
there is Yeah, I think if you enjoy Telly, I think if you’re into the creative experience, the best thing is when you’ve, you’ve come up with, you know, an idea you really like you’ve pitched it, you’ve got it commissioned Do you have a very clear vision of what that show is, is great because, you know, you’re seeing it through from the very start to the very end, you know, and you know, that show, and that’s, that’s, that’s what you do it for is you know, I’ve I don’t think that Robert was that all the creative stuff was done the format’s there, you’re really just you’re responsible, mainly just for squabbling, Robert is and they all and they’re all like, Oh, that’s not fair. He did this or she did that. But um, so it kind of difference it well. That’s what I like about TV is that the role will change but ultimately, you know, you you have the experience that puts you in that position to have that role
Andrew Dubber
is the kind of the specialism sort of real life. I don’t say reality TV, but real life.
Andrew Robertson
reality.
Andrew Dubber
You’re you’re okay with the term. It’s not a pejorative or
Andrew Robertson
I don’t I did a lot of relatively, you know, back in the Big Brother days and also thinking they were they were in fact, they were good, they have good shows to make. They were very hard choice to make. You worked really hard but but you met a lot of very much in the trenches, you met a lot of people that became really good friends and you went to work with you know, or you work with later and if you can make those shows people know that they can trust you in a way right they made such a such a while they’ll be right then, you know, then a lot of these shows are not for the faint hearted to make.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah. And also doesn’t gel entirely with my understanding reality either. Well, they change a
Andrew Robertson
lot I I stopped my last reality show was big brother with some Channel Four. And so when it was channel five, that show finished and then obviously the more constructive reality shows came in. And I think there’s a I think the the valley’s was first constructed reality show. I think there’s a there’s a different art form to it. But and so credit to people who make those shows, but I think that it sort of depends what you’re setting out to achieve. I think what happens is like big brother’s the perfect example was started as a sort of experiment. But then it gets led by the viewers, as a channel sees all that, you know, nudity and swearing, getting good figures, your that drives the editorial ultimately,
Andrew Dubber
right? And there is this kind of, I guess, ethical and moral dimension to what you do, is it best not to think about it, or something you really wrestle with,
Andrew Robertson
you know, I was talking about So today, I’m actually, really, I’ve always been very strong on that on the ethical side of it. And when you see a lot of the shows I’ve made, you might not think, but actually, it’s up to everyone, it’s up to you how you want to live. But I’ve, I’ve, you know, said no to a lot of things, I refuse to let things happen on my watch, I will say the most is not going to happen. A lot of things are pretty shocking. I’ve seen and I’ve refused. And that comes back to the executive producer thing where it’s your you have to make a call, when you’re doing onto the farm and big bows and things I’ve seen that happening or people gonna let happen that I’ve certainly lost jobs because I would refuse to do things. The people above me wanted to happen. And so I’m not taking part that’s not that’s not the you know, you can’t treat people in that way. So I think you have to make your left ear to sleep
Andrew Dubber
at night don’t usually make that call. And where’s that led you now?
Andrew Robertson
Definitely to a better place. I mean, the people, you know, when the person that runs the company is telling you to some ethically you think is wrong and you choose not to. And they won’t hire you again, but but by that for me, that’s fine, because I don’t want to work. Yeah. So you have to, you know, I’ve had a lot of that in my career. And I’m much I’m very happy with what I’ve had
Andrew Dubber
a lot of being sacked for ethical standpoint.
Andrew Robertson
Not be sacked, but but God, what is bullying, you know, essentially being on shows where they refuse to talk to you for the rest of deductions in the next two months. With people your boss is like ignoring you when you walk in a room, and that’s
Andrew Dubber
very grown up.
Andrew Robertson
It’s pretty horrific. Yeah, it was horrible. But I think you have to make, you know, you make your decisions. And and that’s fine. But I think it’s important to just remember that, you know, it’s your, that thing of not being overwhelmed by when you know, your boss or whoever’s running. The company is pressurising you to do something feel uncomfortable with the points you say, I’m not going to do that. I’ve done a lot of crazy shit. But you still have to have your own moral boundaries.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, when you hear two contradictory stories, one is that this is the golden age of television. And the other one, this is the worst time ever for television, either of those things true to me.
Andrew Robertson
I think that thing of I was listening to that great song, the airing credits, the Baz Luhrmann. But it’s not me. But they if you sunscreen, I had one piece of ice. Oh, great. You know, I listened again the other day. And there’s a bit in there. I think he mentioned that that, you know, you always think the past, you know, was was the best of times. And this is worse times. I think it’s some of the stuff in tvm is is amazing. You know, we were in that session talking a lot about Netflix and the lights. And for me Netflix feels slightly bloated. I think black mirror is a good example. where, you know, I think that too long. I think they’re great. I mean, charlie brooker is amazing, but I’m like, that could have been a third of the time. So I think there’s, there’s that side, but I’m much more excited by this sort of newer kind of talent coming through. That might be a couple of years before we sort of see them break through. But I think there’s as every chair as a good time TV.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, one thing that you certainly notice about Netflix is just the diversity of places that programmes come from, and the types of faces you see on the screen that you just ordinarily wouldn’t have, you know, sort of Latin American leads in programmes that are in different languages. And, you know, all of these sorts of things. And it seems like, there’s so much room on Netflix, because it’s not bound to schedules that you get the opportunity to start to go, let’s take a risk. Let’s put something else in there. Is that is that mean? Yeah, my reality.
Andrew Robertson
Yeah, people are lazy. And also the algorithms wait works as you know, I’ve got kids and if my kids watch one Adam Sandler film, no, my here’s some things we think you’re like, just be old Adam Sandler back. Oh, so I think but my business partner he’s, he’s really into YouTube hasn’t for a long time he talked about when the algorithm on YouTube changed. And he didn’t like it. Because that deep dive into YouTube where you can find something. I got me I’ve always obsessed with that creative moment and I left a job I worked for STV up here in Scotland of creative director at the end and I left it because I did a talk to the company went through the revenue coming in to talk and I stood up in front of the group and was talking about something on Reddit years ago. It was called the button remember the button No. Just changes all it was was on April the first I stuck this thing where on your profile. There was just a thing. where it was a countdown from 60 seconds, okay, and there was a little button next to it. And you could only push the button once. Okay, and so the 60 seconds counting time, but everyone in the world it was on Reddit. So the same countdown clock, okay, but so if you pushed it at 59 seconds, you’ve got a little colour next to your profile forever. So that was basically said, you’re impatient. you’ve pushed it 59. But if you could wait and get it to when it’s almost five seconds to go, you’ve got this like gold star. So it’s just brilliant gamification for some didn’t matter. Yeah, but but what I loved was how simple and brilliant so I was talking to this. The people that place I work to are all like finance and doing all these shows. And the way they were looking at me, I realised this is not the company I should be working on because they just look blank didn’t understand why how amazing what simple idea that is. So I can remember your question i but
Andrew Dubber
i was the golden age of television.
Andrew Robertson
I think he’s, I think, I love this punk thing. I love the fact that anyone can make stuff. You know, you can make on your phone, if you’ve got the gumption in the dark. Just got to say I want to do it. You can do it. And so almost it, it calls out all those people who are like, Oh, you know, I can’t do because of this, that and the other you know, you really have no, you know, there’s no excuse. If you want to make
Andrew Dubber
it you can make it
Andrew Robertson
Yeah, man. I saw about Spielberg when he was a kid, and he made classic films on his own Kodak brownie or whatever, you know, he’s shot by shot he recreated them to like, and that spill spill was, you know, it’s gone on to obviously who he is. He’s done quite well. Yes, I’m ready. Well, the point is he had that dry. So I think it is, I think it’s a great time for TV script. And for content. I don’t really think of it just as TV. I think it’s like, we are content makers. We you that sort of kid. Yeah, I did lots things I unfortunately, weirdly, I prepared. I just convinced I was gonna be a professional footballer, and then someone with the same name as me is now the best footballer in Scotland. So I was thank god if I was Doctor Who, and someone said Andrew Robertson, you’re gonna be really good footballer, but it wasn’t me. But yeah, I definitely wasn’t inventive, but trying to find out that, you know, and I think that’s probably for a lot of people,
Andrew Dubber
right? So in this age of everybody can make me sure that everybody make media know,
Andrew Robertson
everything they can, but just don’t, I think a lot of is don’t you make it but don’t be, don’t do that thing. Where Why is no one watching my, my, whatever it is, you know, I think it’s a great, great process, and you make it you see what works, what doesn’t work. And I think by all means, do it, and have a YouTube channel, wherever, you know, there’s such free access into doing that stuff. But I think the you know, the the core of it is, if it’s something you’re really passionate about, it comes out, it just comes off the screen, you know, so much, it’s really strong. And people, you know, think you don’t have to be into pillow making. And, and but if you can tell a story about pillow, well, people come to it, because it’s not the pillow and just in some way you’re getting that story across. And that’s the key of it. So if you’re doing TV just sounds like a glamorous job to have you sort of live or be a TV anchor, quite frankly, or you won’t last because you realise that really hard, something else has to come from within to keep you going. All you want is where people who get in TV and stay in the same job make the same chauffeur and TV make the same job tears, unless it’s amazing, unless it’s like
Andrew Dubber
a phenomenal thing. And you know, your creative part of it. I worked in television for six months, like 30 years ago. And so my experience of who works in television is extraordinary limited. Yeah, but I imagine that there are a lot of those people.
Andrew Robertson
Yes, yeah, there is there is there is a lot of them are the people who a belief, the hype, kind of get that weird thing off, start wearing sunglasses indoors, and you know, and you’re like, you know, that’s what they’re in for a pair because they love the cachet of it. And, you know, a bit like I said, and reality shows, when you’re doing you know, I’ve done some really hard jobs where you’re doing 20 hour days for almost three months, non stop. And it’s not glamorous, is not nice? You can you can quickly tell the people who you don’t want to work with again. And the other ones you do so i think i think don’t get into it get too if if you’re excited by the great process. You know, you want to make things and and that’s your drive, but not because you want to brag, you know or it sounds
Andrew Dubber
cool. Is it possible for a great idea to just land in your lap and you go you know what, this is my next big thing. Oh, yeah. As a format or as a stories or what is it?
Andrew Robertson
Uh, stories. It’s for me, it’s what makes me excited. There’s a thing where we’re going to pitch to Netflix as well actually, we’ve got him with a BBC It’s, it’s a place it’s not that far from me. But it’s the characters is the person. And just is exactly example of he’s, you know, they’re amazing. But he’s just brilliant because when he talks to you about stuff he does, you want to be his best friend, you listen to him like, oh my god this is he’ll talk about cushioning. But that really is the best question. And it’s not salesmen at all. But it’s he’s got such a passion that you mainly bond with his passion. So it’s that thing, that’s what I want to put in the screen. We’ve got show on the moment on BBC Scotland and it’s the same thing that it’s an environment where the people that we have talking, just brilliant, you just respond to them and you and the way they talk. So you’re not, you know, I think when you’re, you know something not gonna run when you’re layering up on top of it like anything, we have to explain it like and then you know, a lot of us stuff we shoot little tasters because gotten the idea is sound like the show we’ve got a moment is set in hairdressers, but it’s not about hair. So say that Commissioner, they will look at you very blankly and go, Okay, why are you talking to me? It is, you know, isn’t it the salon or rancher? And it’s not that tall. So we would we would shoot it and go look at this. Look at these people. That’s what got it commissioned is is that it’s you know, it’s not? It’s not this, but sometimes you need to it’s hard. Can you convey it to explain that properly?
Andrew Dubber
Is that the way that somebody will get it to your attention is to show you look, it looks like this isn’t what I’m trying to do? Yeah,
Andrew Robertson
definitely, definitely. Because I love the sort of more different stuff, the stuff that you’re like, that sounds interesting. But it hardest stuff is where it sounds like a traditional environment. But what you’re saying is no, but but look at these people, look how amazing they are. That’s the thing you have to put on camera, because you can be a great salesman, and sell it and it doesn’t stand up in the Edit, you know, that will not go on air. So,
Andrew Dubber
yeah. Is there a value? That’s that’s probably the wrong question. Because clearly there’s value. But is there an appeal to making stories that are valuable to a much smaller number of people?
Andrew Robertson
I don’t, I don’t think my thing is because of the sort of the passion is what I’m looking for, like you’re saying about the kitchen thing? I don’t think that’s how it works. I think that people are interested in stories and people respond to human storytelling to someone’s telling a story. Well, you know, be it about that life is the human factor that we respond to, to maybe model railways. But if you if you cast it, right, they’re telling a story, modern railways, and they’re going, and they’re really getting into it. And you and that’s what people respond to. And people might talk about oh did you see that show last night, that model railway guy, he was hilarious, but they’ll watch it not for the model railways, but for the storytelling and the passion. And that’s what I’d say is, you know, if you’ve got someone who’s really boring, and they’re talking about how to scale up a model railway, you’re gonna get a very small audience
Andrew Dubber
is the is the front person, the anchor that holds it together? Or
Andrew Robertson
Yes, or the environment isn’t, you know, could be the group. You know, there was a famous show years ago called the The Fucking Fulfords, which is about sort of very posh, aristocratic couple, when they were very funny, because they were just, you know, swearing and, and being polish, and people loved it for that. So I think it’s, I think it’s, you know, you can find universal stories in the most nice of places, and it will work, you know, whereas you can, if you cast it badly, you could, you know, you could have someone who’s the Queen’s hairdresser, and it’d be boring, because they’re not conveying that story. So,
Andrew Dubber
yeah, yeah. Is there any sense? Because you have, if you have a large audience, and you have a broadcast, and you have millions of people watching, is there any sense that you go, you know, what, I’m going to make a difference to these people, I’m going to not just entertain them, not just kind of, you know, delight them or engage them. But you know, what, I want to change people’s minds about something they will the recent example, being David Attenborough and straws. There was a there was a platform, there was an audience and there was an opportunity. Yeah, you got that? Did you feel?
Andrew Robertson
I will try that. Again, the show we’ve got the moment what we very consciously tried to do is set in Scotland, is that it’s from the very beginning. One thing I was not going to have us talk about was football. I want to talk about drink or drugs, not going to talk about and the reason being that I’m sick of Scotland being portrayed in the same way if you ever see anything in Scotland outside of Scotland, it’s always football violence, drink and drugs. So that was the first thing to go it’s not and everything was shot beautifully. So wherever we were, it wasn’t like gutters with rain pouring down and slummy tenants tenements, it was always gonna look good side gone because we are responsible for story we tell. And so the other thing I want to do is have people on To show who we never see on TV, who are honestly talking about their lives, and and what’s their story they have to tell. So we had, you know, we had, I mean that transgender is obviously quite a lot on TV, but we had there was a guy at the time, he was very beginning, who wants to do the show? So he went through with it, he wanted to tell his story from the very beginning. And so that’s, that’s maybe more sort of traditional now, but also people talking about autism talking about suicide, but it was in an entertainment show. So it wasn’t, it was aimed that the people who would watch it, basically the people who watch that I want to hear those stories told and the people who it’s their story as well, but they wouldn’t watch it, if it was a show called is about autism and suicide. They watched it as an entity. So we’ve got it’s a bit like Bill Hicks, Bill Hicks would always say, you know, don’t worry, you know, is he when he starts talking politics, he said, Don’t worry is no jokes on the way. So it’s the same thing of mixing the two because that’s what life is. It’s the is the knob jokes. l it’s the sadness.
Andrew Dubber
It’s a sugar coated pill.
Andrew Robertson
Yeah. And so that I think that’s the response we have is to go for me anyways, also, I want real people, I don’t wanna send them I don’t want to cut people into stereotypes. I haven’t done enough reality shows I know how to do. I was keen not to do that to go. That’s real people tell their stories. And, and actually, you realise the beauty in that is much stronger than the contrived kind of edit.
Andrew Dubber
Do you gone? Do you go along with the idea that this is like only nine stories is the rags to riches, you know,
Andrew Robertson
are the stories I’m telling arm, that sort of classic miss story that they’re, they’re like real people. So there’s a show one, again, on this series we had, it’s amazing. She just was talking about her life, and she had a really hard time. And it’s beautiful, because you feel fresh. He, she’s older, she had a really hard upbringing, and she and all she could ever do what her life was saying singing was a thing that she could do, she brought broken poverty and, you know, and, and, but singing was the thing kind of got through, then she got throat cancer. And she was like, she couldn’t believe that what you know, of all the things that have to do to have her voice be taken away was was too much. And she’s telling this story on camera and, and then she went to she went to surgery, she recovered. She got through it, she went to a voice coach and she got a vote of voice but now she busks on the outside Marks and Spencers in Glasgow, you know, and she’s got her voice back. And it’s, you know, so that I don’t know where that fits in the classic mystery. But for me, when you listen to it, and you know, she’s real. And it’s and it’s and then she sings at the end of the show. And you’re like, Oh my god, it’s like, bring a tear to your eye because you’re like, it’s so powerful. But it’s also a real you know, it’s a it’s someone’s like, we all have those stories in us. I think we respond to them and other people.
Andrew Dubber
It’s interesting that musics a key part of that story. And there is this kind of connection with music. And I know the music is in every television show, without exception. How much do you think about music when you’re putting a show together?
Andrew Robertson
Uh, I think we think about law it’s kind of depends on you don’t want it to be intrusive, obviously. And sometimes music is used as a kind of cheat, isn’t it? Where it’s actually not there’s no emotion in this piece of tools. So what we’re gonna do, is we’re going to bung in a banging track underneath. Yeah, and that’s why the x factors as well. You know, I can’t I can’t I don’t watch I cannot watch. And I think slowly obviously, people do have stopping anyway. Because of the way they you manipulate people so much with music, I think that’s a mistake. I think that the music no situation is overpowering. And, and it shows a weakness I think, or laziness of the story. But without music, nothing brings goose pimples to you know, like, like music, and it works. Hand in hand. It’s beautiful. Right? So key ingredients, human stories, sort of music, no bullshit, like, you know, tell a real story. And and
Andrew Dubber
can you engineer a real story? Can you start with an idea of a premise of where you want to take some people pick some people that go on that journey? And then and then
Andrew Robertson
on to a reality show? So yes, okay. Oh my god, honestly, there’s a million tricks you’ve learned from doing reality shows now sort of having done them now. I’m quite happy to try and reverse it. Because I know that the antidote
Andrew Dubber
to expect them Yeah. Because
Andrew Robertson
Because actually real. The problem is that the experts in this world are they chase the rate and so much that they they it’s like a ever closing, you know, not diverging lines, but would that be converging?
Andrew Dubber
converging? I guess,
Andrew Robertson
in that they can’t stray off the path is so frightened of if we risk if we do anything, we’ll lose viewers. Yeah. So they end up just in this sort of flat line of just trot the same shadow all the time. It’s just do you know in Evernote as soon as you see someone Oh, here’s Derek and you hit a sad music in the viewer knows. Yeah, absolutely. That’s fine, but I think it’s much better to you know, let’s let’s try and be a bit more engaging and, and also respect of Europe or, you know where possible assume some intelligence
Andrew Dubber
that is there a show that you look at and get caught. I wish I’d made that.
Andrew Robertson
The thick of it anything but Armando Iannucci Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don’t do drama. I don’t do comedy boat because I would love to make it. But I think basically pretty much anything was chris chris Morrison a or Armando Iannucci and he I just really watch live.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, yeah, I have to go along with you on that. But do you think? I mean, there are examples like that, for instance of television getting really smart. Do you think that there there is a kind of like, I mean, television has gone by both directions with golden age aside, do you think that there’s the capacity for television to be smart now is better than before?
Andrew Robertson
I think, I think because it’s more the fact that there are more outlets like BBC Four is just back to back. Brilliant. No, everything on that channel, I see it. I’m like, Oh, my God, you know, and that’s when we talk about nation, they’ll have a, they will have an amazing documentary well told on like, the no Latvian clog makers and if you’ve got the time to watch that you’re going to go I think absolutely. That’s why the BBC, I think is so proud. I’m a massive fan of the BBC, not just obviously cuz,
Andrew Dubber
because they commissioned some of your stuff.
Andrew Robertson
Yeah. But But beyond that, I think this stuff is so amazing. And it does make me really cross when I see, you know, the moment this sort of way political climate there. So, you know, get rid of the BBC, because without the BBC, what, you know, we would be is NHS and BBC to the greatest British, you know, inventions and to lose either them would be absolutely all it does feel like dismantling Britain somewhat doesn’t, you know, in would do no good. The BBC are, you know, look at those documents as a BBC for just incredible. Do you
Andrew Dubber
think that that public broadcasting sense has travelled well, outside of the UK,
Andrew Robertson
that panel, then they you know, the amount of BBC shows America, you know, their highest rated shows? It’s absolutely, it’s a quality?
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, they’re brilliant. I mean, the case of the British shows made by the BBC, obviously, travel internationally, but does the public broadcasting ethos, I guess, translate culturally, places as easily as it does?
Andrew Robertson
I don’t think I think that certainly America, they, you know, they kind of I don’t know, they wouldn’t know what it’s like, because I think people forget how many how far is radio? You know, it’s TV, it’s online, so much content? And I think it’s, I think it’s brilliant. So, I mean, yeah, I can’t see, I don’t know, who else has it. So hard to sort of say whether, you know, it sort of spreads? I don’t know, I don’t know.
Andrew Dubber
Okay, um, I think Okay, so let’s, let’s take it to the British context. Do you think that that same public media perspective could be brought to the online world? For instance, could you have a BBC Facebook? Or could you have that kind of thing where they’ve got
Andrew Robertson
I play, I had an ad so true. You know, I think, I think they’re doing it they’re trying to, we’re doing sort of stuff for them, and channel forwards, but bringing through new talent in that way,
Andrew Dubber
because even Channel Four has a public service remap, isn’t it? Yeah.
Andrew Robertson
It’s like weird, because that’s why it’s annoying to watch Channel Four online, you’d have to watch like eight minutes of ads. Uh huh. Which is, which is just stupid because no one watches them. And they’ve done a thing where you can switch tabs on your browser? Because it’ll stop, wait. I don’t know, I think internationally, it’s a brilliant thing. I can’t see the way the world is, you know, with the Netflix and the thing, how you could never start one up now, could you because no one’s gonna say we’re gonna raise your taxes or introduce a new thing. But actually, ironically, you know, the Amazons Netflix’s are coming around to a place where they’ll cost the same as a TV licence, but give a fraction of the value. Because Netflix doesn’t give you amazing radios and give you all these documentaries doesn’t give you this doesn’t give you that doesn’t give you that sort of range. But what does Netflix cost a year now? It’s like, almost 10 quid a month. That’s only 20 quid a year.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah. Wasn’t up there.
Andrew Robertson
Yeah, the licence fees were 160 a year. So you know, I think I think that would be a absolute terrible thing to lose.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, absolutely. So what’s next? what’s the what’s the kind of that not not necessarily just for you, but for television? I mean, are you talking about second screen staff interacted a
Andrew Robertson
long time. Secondly, I did stuff about years ago. I think it’s um, I think the key thing is just that is that its content, think about things as content. People talk about phones, a lot of interesting conversations about that streaming service where it’s all under 10 minutes is quite interesting because you think I don’t know. I think you It’s like they have that race to the bottom sometimes where I get it, if you if you’re always chasing the views, I don’t think ways create is the right way, but about creating the best content, because actually what happens is that, you know, viewers, you know, will only changes and suddenly they’ll be they’ve all gone down one way, whereas I think, I think as long as the content is kind of quality content, you know, in some form and also represents people, that’s, you know, it’s a big issues representing people properly, you know, are people seeing themselves on screen, you know, whatever, whether it’s, you know, race or disabilities and all this, I think I think that’s really important that, that that should change. We talked about the diversity in, you know, in other ways, but actually, why, you know, there should be much more of that going on. Yeah, that isn’t patronising. And is kind of real. And, and also opens up markets in a way, you know, go gives you more opportunities. But that is a big thing. I think it’s really important here when you start excluding sort of fifth of the population here and half of the population there. Yeah. And I’ll get off my soapbox.
Andrew Dubber
No, I think it’s a good soapbox to be on. But the other thing, the interesting thing that that sort of 10 minute platform raises is this sort of idea, which I I don’t go along with necessarily, is the idea that people’s attention span has decreased when you look at a case as a game of thrones was how long? And how many people watched that? It seems like actually, the appetite for content for lack of a better word is yes. increasing or decreasing? Yeah,
Andrew Robertson
I think there was a really good bit in, as you see, you know, Adam Curtis’s documentaries, we’ve seen them. So he talked about the thing of just about the internet and think about just, it’s all one big thing, who owns the internet companies. Okay, so all this stuff is streaming, and are always content and these major components own all the internet, they run in internet, they’re charging you for the broadband, you know, and you know, and they own the phones. So is there is a massive push into the type of content that relies on phones or relies on, you know, broadband and all that sort of thing. And not to say that that is the some massive conspiracy, but also, that is definitely a thinking, you know, on the other hand, the cinema experience hasn’t gone away, we still love a shared experience, we go to a film comes out, you know, you don’t want to watch on your phone, you want to enjoy it with other humans, you know, and that’s, that’s, that has won every battle. You know, there was a bit of a sort of felt like it was going down when the VHS came out. But actually, it’s still that still something you can do away with. So I don’t
Andrew Dubber
enlarge flat screen TVs and home cinemas, and
Andrew Robertson
I love it, but it’s not I will still go to cinema. Sure.
Andrew Dubber
Sure. Would you go to cinema to watch television?
Andrew Robertson
Well, I was talking about this at this point that actually the world of Netflix and Amazon means that what is what is television, like when you look at you know, Netflix drama is that is that television, because Outlander could easily be you know, maybe someone could easily be on in a movie now you could watch them duration apart. So
Andrew Dubber
you know, this is kind of an epic sweep to some of these things that are big screen.
Andrew Robertson
It’s way to make the centre experience change, maybe you know, you get cinema for four to six, you know, back to back Game of Thrones you do that as an ordinary if it was I think cinemas needs to change but like an East Coast South by Southwest quite a lot. Those Austin cinemas are amazing. You have your pizza and a glass of wine. And it was that you know, the symbolism brettler still so like, you know, quite a boring and kind of pop corny, but but if it’s the cinema needs to change so that it can take that in and you know, set up that that.
Andrew Dubber
So the good good stories and people’s living rooms and large screens with lots of people around shared experience, shared experience. Fantastic. Andrew, thanks so much for your time.
Andrew Robertson
Thank you very much. Yes,
Andrew Dubber
that’s Andrew Robertson. And that’s the end of podcast. Hope you enjoyed. And if you did, don’t forget to share, like rate review. And of course, tell your friends. And if you do feel like a box set binge after listening to that. Don’t forget, there are 45 more episodes of the MTF podcast featuring brilliant artists, industry leaders, scientists, inventors, storytellers and other fascinating members of the huge global MTF community that you’re part of just by being here. There’s bound to be something in there that’s of interest you go and enjoy that. I’ll catch you next week. Have a great one. Cheers.
