Jay O'Callahan - Storyteller to the Stars
His job was to capture the human endeavour - the human triumph and the human tragedy - of one of the most ambitious projects of innovation, curiosity, creativity and technology in living memory.
AI Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
story, people, armstrong, moon, nasa, o rings, narrative, professional storyteller, life, leaving, important, navy, create, neighbourhood, part, world, listener, children, play, storyteller
SPEAKERS
Jay O’Callahan, Andrew Dubber
Andrew Dubber
Hi, I’m Dubber. I’m the director of Music Tech Fest and this No, you know what, let’s do this differently. I’m 11 years old in the backseat of a car between my two sisters, mom and dad in the front seat, driving North over the Auckland Harbour Bridge. It’s just after Christmas. Getting to the height of the New Zealand summer, heading to a rented beach house in Stanmore Bay on the Upper Peninsula and the radios on am radio. This is the 70s not always exactly entirely on the frequency. Occasionally dipping out behind hills or through tunnels but its foreground we don’t simply have it on. We’re listening. Casey Kasem’s American Top 40 year in show with the long distance dedications, the stories behind the music on the charts, and that iconic voice now lost to us except through cartoon reruns. And when it was too wet to go to the beach, we’d listen to the old BBC comedies on one way, the Navy Lark, Dad’s Army, round the horn, I’m sorry, I’ll read that again. And the goons which I really loved. And some years later, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy made an impression in a way that explains a great deal about what was to come over the next 35 years. And much later again, I discovered things like This American Life, a Prairie Home Companion, I made radio stories for a living for a while back there documentaries, kids stories, sci fi dramas, we made them out of tape and razor blades at first. Later, we tried all sorts of new digital technologies, some better than others, which is to say, storytelling, narrative and sound, the human voice, these things are interesting for me. So when you’re me, and you meet a real storyteller, someone who does this for real for a lifetime, and for NASA, among others, you pay attention. And so I find myself in Inverness, in Scotland, a place I have an ancestral connection to, in a converted chapel behind a microphone across the table from Jay O’Callahan, who’s come to Expo north, a conference and festival of creative industries, to talk about his life and his work, and to sit down with me and explore creativity, and the connection between the oldest storytelling medium, and the most advanced technology that propels human imagination to the outer limits of space. And even though Yes, we’ve had weeks of celebration of the 50 years on from the moon landing, there’s still a way of telling the Neil Armstrong story, in a way you haven’t heard it before. I’m Andrew Dubber. This is the MTF podcast. And this is Jay O’Callahan.
Jay O’Callahan
I do use the word storyteller. I could say I’m someone who plays with sound and images. And I play with sound. Hello, hello. I want to say hello, which is part of the part of the NASA story. It’s the Voyager and I play with dialogue. Well, Armstrong… This is an old Admiral What’s your latest? Moon sir. Moon? What is that? THE moon, sir. The, the moon . So I play with dialogue I play with sound I play with rhythm I play with image. And very often image leads me right through a story. This time I’ll tell you a bit of a bit of an experimental story show. Let me just begin it. So when I was a boy, that was my dad whistling was to come home. We lived in a neighbourhood called pill hill on the edge of Boston filled with doctors. And as a boy of seven, eight and nine it was filled with sights and sounds. We were right on the top and the bottom of the hill was a Women’s Hospital. We call it forceps Avenue. And one of the sites was one of the nurses finishing a shift coming up the hill starched white hat starched uniform, and a blue cape. There was something noble about the blue cape and she might stop halfway up to wave at the the custodians of the neighbourhood tennis court. Old john and old john was like no one had ever seen. He would roll the court. He would water damage down. But he was bent he perhaps he was in a terrible fire. He was bent and his face was creased in his hands well as his ears looked like dried apricots, and his mouth was in the wrong place. But as mine was fine, how are you, john? Huh? How are you? He was one of the sites of my boyhood. Another site was right across the street was a 10 green garage belonging to the Lawrence’s was the only 10 green garage I’ve ever seen in my life. So dark green, and it was important because Dr. Lawrence was the tide of the neighbourhood. We all loved him, he would back out of the tin green garage, maybe 730 go off to the Faulkner hospital to make a plane in Boston, and come back about 730 or eight every night, seven days a week he was the tide. So there was something dependable in boyhood about Dr. Lawrence. And then there were the sights and sounds of the parties my parents had, we had a huge house, people would come in in a winter night. And it was a dance 10 of 15 had come in and there was a dance of the hats coming off of the coats coming off. And there was a dance of the smell of the lipstick and perfume in the cold. Then there was a dance of my parents hi Harry. Everyone greeted and that was the dance of soon enough people had high balls they didn’t call them low balls of high balls. So that was the dance of the language. It was Chicken a la King was never Turkey a la King it was Chicken a la King waiter these names it’s a boy I was fascinated with all of these names. Say Uncle Eric, Uncle Eric. He was a big man, play the piano and Uncle Eric would go into a large piano room, sit down. And his his hand would come down on the keys. and Mrs. Lauren said it was like, it’s like thunderbolts lightning on the keys. And that was not totally a compliment. But I love the way he played. And then he would swivel around so that he would be looking at us, and only his right hand would be playing the piano. So this goes on, but it’s a series of impressions. And it’s a different way of telling a story in it. It fascinates me just series of impressions, ending with a whistle. And the boy going up the dance is over at 130 at night, and the only person left is the father playing the piano. And the boy has a sense in that melody that he knows something of the secret of his father said say though, because it’s an exploration, it’s not a story in an ordinary sense.
Andrew Dubber
It’s certainly a different response to who you are and where you come from and what you do, then than you ordinarily get in these kinds of contexts. And and the way that you tell that story reminds me pretty much have Garrison Keillor and the way that those images are brought together. I think there’s there’s a there’s a real thread of the American storyteller. That is kind of evident and that kind of radio storytelling.
Jay O’Callahan
Yes, yes. It’s true. There is a thread of impressions.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah, absolutely. So you became professionally a storyteller? And then you find yourself at NASA there has to be something in between those two things.
Jay O’Callahan
Yeah, there’s a great deal. My children really did listen me into being a storyteller. And I was unconsciously learning that there is a great power in the listener the listeners face. Listen to that listeners appreciation for my children who is just smiling or laughing or, or go daddy go, which meant the next story. I was discovering that I was drawn to rhythms. I might read, Run Run fast as you can. I wouldn’t read run fast. If you can run run faster you can can get me in the gingerbread man. So I’m discovering rhythms with my children just as a clarinettist is discovering, you know, getting better at the technique but discovering what they love about this. This is years. And then I began to tell in in our town Marshfield in the schools just for fun. And one day, this is one of these moments in life. I told it a local school and radio was on saying you feeling sorry for himself do something. So I called Mr. Dar, Jay O’Callahan. How are you J? Mr. Dar, I’m a professional storyteller now said was that mean me to pay me. And he invited me down and that was the beginning of being a professional storyteller and really blossomed in the Boston area. And then there was the challenge, you know, can I make a story about things adults would like I make a historical story. And then time a local town, Harvard, Massachusetts, said, This is her 300 and 50th anniversary, can you do a story? And that led me into this world of commissioning, where you to enter a brand new world. And with NASA, I had no idea what engineers did. I certainly didn’t study engineering. But now I’m in the world. I’m sitting down with someone who has flown the X 15, fastest plane in the world, Armstrong thrilled that I’m sitting down with, with astronauts, all these different people. So that that’s the glory of entering a real world. So with my children whose whole imaginary I began to know that we’re all very well. It’s entering this world of it’s almost like an imaginary world, but it’s real. People are really flown the X 15. And I can ask them what, what it’s like, and slowly get into the world of Armstrong and that particular moment of descending in a lunar module. It’s been tested on earth but not tested, leaving the command module headed down to the moon, and everything goes wrong. And Armstrong because of this career is able to handle it.
Andrew Dubber
There’s a military background on the
Jay O’Callahan
military background was in the Navy in in Korea, his wing was sliced off, he had to eject came down and rice paddy might have died. face death as part of the training for this face death again. And I really admire particularly the descent, you know, I had I was torn between telling that and JC hi gold today, because it tells so much about Armstrong
Andrew Dubber
for five minutes. Was he concerned more about the death of others than his own death? Is that where that sort of strength comes from?
Jay O’Callahan
That’s a good question. I don’t know the answer to that. I know that he he had a humility, but a practical side. So that that became a question who will stand on the moon first. And Buzz Aldrin wanted to but Neil Armstrong was the commander of this. And the people around him knew him and thought he just was better. Because of his calmness in his back on to be the first one. These kind of hidden struggle. told a lot about him. There’s an entire story that is the movie. First Men deals with it, but I’m not sure they totally captured and that is that. These was all guys at first. They’re not at home. The kids are growing up. And it’s hard for the wives. And finally, Armstrong is this celebrated figure leaves NASA. But he’s just as busy. He’s, he’s not exactly reclusive. But he doesn’t want to give interviews everyone in the world wants him but he’s on this board and that board. And finally his wife says that said, I get divorced. And it’s a very difficult emotional time. Because in a sense, he’s still moving, moving moving anywhere. I was in the Navy, and I just knew of how many divorces that were would be on cruises. 10 months away. And after a while, and other mothers and wives, I can’t do it.
Andrew Dubber
Because that’s a very personal story side of that sort of thing is something I feel like that we’re now beginning to tell it’s always been the mythology and the big grand adventure stories that we’ve had in the past. Do you think story has evolved in that way that we’ve become more inwardly focused, more personal, more interested in things like grief and isolation then in kind of conquest and exploration?
Jay O’Callahan
It’s also a wonderful question. I think people are hungry for that. As a columnist, David Brooks for the New York Times, really embodies MP. He’s very interested in news and not getting caught in a capitalist society with just fame. Money and importance, but something much deeper. And I think that’s a huge struggle in in America, maybe maybe Europe, because the draw to become a star is huge as if it will solve. All right, any more anger? And of course it doesn’t. So I like the question because maybe that’s a thread running through at least America. Yeah, we have a very different president in media doesn’t seem to be a spiritual person. But Obama did Obama was a man of language and reading. And I think searching.
Andrew Dubber
Do you think the context for narrative has changed a lot? I mean, obviously, we’ve had sort of gone from stories around the campfire, to return stories to print to recordings and broadcasting and, and where we’re at with digital technologies. Now, do you think that the nature of stories changes in those different shifts through media?
Jay O’Callahan
I think it can. There is huge competition with movies and television. And they are different. They are visual. They are not you listening, creating. With storytelling, there are two creators, two artists, there is a teller and the listener is creating all these images. So earlier today, I told a story about JC high ego. And what I hope is that the audience is creating this young man going onto police station, I want to be a policeman, that young men running into Apollo 13, Flight Control Centre, no, don’t abort, send them around the moon. I hope the listener creates this dramatic scene as opposed to seeing it as a play, just different forms. But the powerful part about this is you create and in a technical logical society that’s really pushing to the to take time to create. You need story to one of the ways you could create was exciting after this morning to have several young fellows come down and say I’m a drama student. I do monologues and what do you think? They were excited to be drama students. Yeah, I could feel their excitement. I love that.
Andrew Dubber
And it is something that is teachable and learnable, too.
Jay O’Callahan
Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Everybody tell stories, and everybody can tell them better. It is teachable. That’s wonderful.
Andrew Dubber
Right? One of the things that we do at Music Tech Fest is very much centred around innovation with the idea that we don’t know what the solutions are going to be. I know you talk about Armstrong and the moon mission being that the goal was non even though that nobody knew how to get there. The goal was not and while we work with a lot is a lot of stuff where there is no goal there is like let us build let us innovate, let us create. How do you weave story when you don’t know where the story will take you?
Jay O’Callahan
That’s the way I always began. Certainly with my children, I don’t know where the story is going to go. There’s something in me that as a father trust, so there’s not this, oh, am I gonna work? They’re gonna laugh at me. And even as a boy 14, I would make up stories. But I was careful never to tell to an adult. I think I knew that the adults say, you know, that could be better if you did this, which I didn’t need it 14. And I didn’t need it as a 30 year old father, that listener so so I had no idea where the stories would go. And sometimes I would hear they were asleep. I was crushed. I didn’t generally have the courage to go into a school, particularly when you have 200 kids, and just wing it. Occasionally dead. But generally, I’d come in, you know, like a jazz man. This is what I’m gonna play. It’s a story. And I know the note, and I love the notes. And I love the characters and I love doing it over and over and over to get deeper into the character with my body. My body is very important. And that’s different. Every storyteller is different, but for me the body so trust was important, and the listeners were important. And as they were gifts, I wouldn’t be here without my children.
Andrew Dubber
Let’s talk about that embodiment side of things. When you say your body is important, is it about the expression of the story? Or is there something in the human body that generates these these narratives and these stories?
Jay O’Callahan
Yes, yes, yes, the body. Body helps me be there with the character of Mrs. Lawrence across the street was a wonderful eccentric. Children, on Wednesday we have cookies and Dickens. When I tell that story I stand, and I can feel her cookies and Dickens, children. Why don’t we read Electra to play, I didn’t call you children, you do page 42. I’m a lecturer as the play begins. Some of my, my body and my hands take over, too. So stomach step I get out of the way. My body leads me said that earlier with Armstrong. I know the Navy. So I know standing and attention,
Andrew Dubber
because I have to say your posture. When you’re talking about these different people radically changes. You become very stiff when you talk about Armstrong and and your arms are at 90 degree angles. And you set up right. And yeah, yeah, it’s a very different sort of embodiment of the character. But does that character come from the the body or does the body represent your storytelling?
Jay O’Callahan
The body definitely informs the story and helps me be present. Mm hmm. Helps me I’m in a sense, I’m aside because I’m strong. So the seniors, Armstrong reporting for duty, Sir, he’s talking to this old man who lives his her own show. So then the body is just the head and voice. I’m sure Navy pilot and Armstrong in the scene is really bringing this man back to remember. So he’s an admiral and his body changes. And this is this fellow is just Armstrong. He’s a Navy but I’m the Admiral. So it’s quite mysterious story I would have loved to tell told here called the herring shed in Nova Scotia, new Scotland. About a girl Maggie Thomas is a real, real work at 14 during World War Two. She’s in a herring shed. I’m in the guild open the mouth slip it on the road in the hidden shed. There are three women in the herring shed and the desk telegrams are coming into the herring shed. So they are very much part of the war and the war effort. But that that gesture brings me to Maggie Thomas thumb in the girl open the mouth, very cold. It’s repetitive work. But there’s a real relationship with these two other a girl and a woman. So the body is key have told that in the radio. Even in a studio, I definitely do this you know, I don’t stand. And ideally in a studio, I’m standing up watching the mic, but my body becomes making my voice.
Andrew Dubber
Narrow narrative gives us meaning is what we hear a lot, that it’s a way of our understanding the world making sense of it. Human beings are human beings because they connect threads of narrative together. What does it mean, to innovate to create and how do we make sense of that?
Jay O’Callahan
Just the creative process? Yeah. I do a lot of workshops. And the whole idea of the workshops is to just draw creativity out. Through often through objects yesterday in the workshop, he said, Tell a memory when you are a child of a phone. And people had some wonderful memories a little girl and just this this little thing or turning the dial and words like there was a phone table. And for one woman you go into the phone room, and it always smell because the ashtray was filled with cigarettes. And there was a warmth of the radiator. Well, I’m telling this memory she’s really creating. And we the listeners are invited into that moment.
Andrew Dubber
Why is that important? Why are we Why is that important? Why is
Jay O’Callahan
it important? Because we are creating and somehow we’re part of her world. This is all in 90 seconds. But we’re invited in another woman told told of the phone. Mothers in the phone. She’s a little girl jumping up and down and her mother is oh Pleasant stop, and the mother never does that. The mother has just heard of the death of her mother. And this woman is telling a moment, she’s never forgotten. It’s it’s sitting there. And were moved by that moment. And somehow that’s very human to be invited into the world. And not through, you know, what do you what do you think of, of Trump or something? It’s not just the conceptual world, it’s different. It’s the world of images, and it’s the world of her life. And that, I think that makes us more human. We’re invited in, not just for mental process, or
Andrew Dubber
life, because we’ve, it feels like we’re more than a collection of facts. Exactly.
Jay O’Callahan
Exactly. Yes. And that’s why cocktail parties can be hard. Because
Andrew Dubber
how do you get around that? Okay, so as a storyteller, giving advice to somebody going to a cocktail party? How do you get past this? What do you do? What’s your name? You know, what role do you fill in society? Those sorts of questions. How do you How does somebody who is not a professional storyteller get deeper and more connected, more human and more one narrative led?
Jay O’Callahan
Other than leaving? Last night, my wife who’s brilliant, talking with the man who will be speaking today, tour his name. But what part of Scotland? And that’s all he needed to tell us about the island and then later asked him about Harris. And he said, Oh, yes, the young people are leaving. And then I told her, I said, Oh, yes, Jamie was in the workshop today. And Jamie was telling about how he was a window washer. And Harris, and they’re often candles inside. And he thought one day one, why not have a candle making factory with fragrant candles. And that’s led to a whole step factories, now they’re gonna have a brewery. So a lot of the young people are staying. Hm. He’s interested, Jane, because of
Andrew Dubber
this connecting thread that goes one factor into another fact. Yeah. So to me, I think that it sounds like what you’re saying is that the narrative isn’t the isn’t the parts between facts. Anything that connects the facts?
Jay O’Callahan
It is? Yeah, it is. And he had the brilliant to connect this. This is the big story. This is Harris people leaving, oh, maybe they can work with this fact. Maybe this other factory. So he’s practically, you know, inventing these, these real things, making the narrative of errors different.
Andrew Dubber
What’s the relationship between narrative and performance? how did how did those things work together?
Jay O’Callahan
Well, that’s a good question. Because there’s there is the formal part of performance, which is exciting. Particularly the moment you feel people are not nervous anymore. They’re involved in JC Heigl, or they’re involved in the moon landing. And they’re no longer really interested in me there. Is he gonna make it everybody knows. But when you hear you’re worried is I’m still going to make it. So you’re involved. All creating together. That’s very exciting.
Andrew Dubber
Interesting. So when you were working with NASA, what was specifically your role there? What was the what we brought in to do?
Jay O’Callahan
It was the 50th anniversary. And that was important because Ed Hawkman had a good hook. I’m bringing him in because it’s our fifth and this is a different way that made sense to them. My job was never, I was told. Make sure you tell about people in space, and robot and space. Get them both. It’s the 50th. So how do you encompass 50 years? And do you touch on a major failure? Christa McAuliffe, the teacher in space 1986. Challenge challenge. He lives up in 73 seconds. It’s a fireball is a big story there. What happened? And it’s a very moving story of communication not working as a result. So people die. Do I put that in? And if I do, will NASA people said well, we hired you won’t you don’t spend 15 minutes your story on this failure? Nobody ever said that. It made a huge impression. The United States to leave it out would have been So I wanted to do that I had to decide Armstrong is that everybody does some some people said, No, we know about that. Well, in fact, even the people at NASA didn’t realise how hard it was to stand about healing. Yes, that’s a good question two, very definitely. I like that. Because also dealing with the challenge here was about healing. Just putting it out there. And sealing the loss. You get to know in the story, you got to know Christa McAuliffe, got two children, she got a husband, she’s a teacher. And it’s all over and 73 seconds and care about her. And you care about the men who try to stop it. I got a good feeling for him. Roger Beaujolais. The NASA story became quite personal to me. I always wanted to tell about Christa. Roger Beaujolais worked for the Morton thiokol company, they built this solid rocket booster. And he tried to tell them months ahead, we’ve got to address this problem of the O ring. The hot gasses are going by them. And if they go by the second, every ring, there’s going to be an explosion. People going to die. Well, the company didn’t deal with it. And the night before, it’s to take off January 28 1986. The night before the day before. NASA calls Morton thiokol company, Are we safe to launch? The manager says no. You just told me it’s going to be freezing. We haven’t launched unless it’s 53 degrees above. I’m afraid of the O rings freezing and they won’t seal. It’s a big conference that night and NASA man gets angry and says What do you want us to do wait till April to launch. So the managers and Morton thiokol company says NASA will be back on the horn. We’re going to talk among ourselves, make a managerial decision. The engineers are excluded Roger Beaujolais runs forward says look at these two photos. Odd cast has gone by the prime it’s score to secondary you can take this chance not listen to. This is great drama. Manager calls back NASA. It’s safe to launch. Those people going to die in the morning. Six 37 of them have breakfast they given a weather briefing. It’s 24 degrees, windshield freezing. So they get into the challenger. It lifts off, it doesn’t take much time. 73 seconds the hot gas has gone through fireball. Because the O rings couldn’t expand in coal really was a Greek tragedy. Because none of the crew members know stories like
Andrew Dubber
this and old stories, I guess, have a beginning a middle and an end. But the people in that story most of the people in that story go on to have a life beyond it. And and that feels like when somebody’s story has already ended. What then do they do? Do we create new stories? Do we fold that into the narrative lives? I mean, what what became of Roger Beaujolais? For instance,
Jay O’Callahan
the practical part is that NASA study that it said with a failure. How can we deal with this fake a huge commission. And that’s a whole story. And that is it kind of bureaucratic look, but there’s a famous scientist who’s listening. Nobody told me about those O rings, he tells them to ordinary workers. And he figures out that that’s it was the O ring. They’re kind of hiding. Right. So that’s Feynman saying scientists goes in front of the Congress. You’ve got a glass and ice in it and he takes some rubber, I think it was put to it and says, Look at that it’s contracting. That’s what happened. quite brilliant. So there was this whole story of what happened can we find the truth? Then there was the the other story that I don’t think anybody really follows up what happens to the husband what happens to the children? We’re I don’t know what was left of the body because it comes down smashes into the ocean. I happen to be picked up by a cab driver. When I was in Florida. He said I was part of the mission that pulled it up. So the bodies has been terribly smashed. But I did go to the cemetery in Concord, New Hampshire, and some of that seemed important to stand there. And I tried to interview her husband, and I think he was wise he had it to judge life goes on, because I want to talk about the past. But that that is a story as a whole story of she, she was a heroine to a lot of people, I find
Andrew Dubber
that really interesting, the the judge, the husband, who obviously went on to have a life, but he must feel in some ways, because of the sort of the epic scale of the story and the Greek tragedy of it, that he was a minor character in his own life.
Jay O’Callahan
He was a character, and maybe that’s why he stopped, he would not answer my letters. Can I just talk for a while? Maybe he didn’t want to be defined that way or a husband did go on being a judge in Concord? I don’t know if he’s alive. I know. I think his children are in California. To talk to them. You know, you bring up a whole point due to people over so your mother?
Andrew Dubber
Yeah. But do you get to I mean, this is we all imagine ourselves as the central character in our plot. Yeah. But But I guess there must be situations like that, where the the story that you’re part of is much bigger than you are, and what that must feel like, I mean, well, I like your word epic.
Jay O’Callahan
All of these people, but particular Armstrong is part of something so much bigger than him. You think of thousands of years and people looking at the moon wondering what it’s like. And now he steps on the moon now?
Andrew Dubber
Do you think there’s a point where that’s going to ever become commonplace?
Jay O’Callahan
Do NASA know it’s going to head to the moon to people living? A little bit sad, but but at the same time, there were many astronauts who said, when they were up there looking back, they thought how fragile this is, you know, why can’t we do better than just be at war. Edgar Mitchell, had a PhD was in the Navy MIT so very scientific. 12 men stepped on the moon when he was coming back. He said his whole life changed. He had this powerful sense that everything is interconnected. And part of him is weeping because the Vietnam War was going on. And he wanted to spend the rest of his life on Earth How can the human mind meditate be a mystic and yet be scientific? How does the mind work? In an attempt to see if we can do better? It was wonderful to interview him up here
Andrew Dubber
that perspective on the world looking back at the earth as a whole lot of astronauts talk about and yes, that’s really interesting and these kind of what we think of as epic Tales of the the you know, going to the moon and setting foot on the moon. They are also smaller chapters of a larger narrative of of human endeavour and human you know, imagination and and how we develop what do you think if that is the overarching narrative What do you think the main themes are? What are we learning as a result of all this?
Jay O’Callahan
I did like the idea of the dream vision and possibility one of Emily Dickinson’s phone begin I dwell and possibility of fairer house and pros were numerous of Windows if you’re a possibility than that windows are open more numerous of doors dwell in possibility of fear house and pro to me pros is don’t take a risk. Oh no, that can’t happen pros is safe. But possibilities possibility open chest so I like that I like let’s let’s do this. We don’t know how we get to the moon but let’s do this. And then to me much more exciting is the Voyagers two small spacecraft. And 77. They took off September, August, September. And now there have left the solar system.
Andrew Dubber
Carrying of all things a record.
Jay O’Callahan
Yes and carry a Golden Record with many of the sounds and music of the earth.
Andrew Dubber
They’re not the Beatles apparently they couldn’t get the rights. No,
Jay O’Callahan
The Beatles didn’t get on their pygmy girls initiation song
Andrew Dubber
Louie Yeah, yeah. Well, but but out there somewhere as the sound of at least who we were, but do you find yourself as the person who captures these stories and narratives? They your own story is somehow woven into that or is it as it left behind? Is that not the important bit anymore? Where is your story in all of these stories?
Jay O’Callahan
Well, part of my story is leaving the solar system. Part of my story does feel that I’m with the Voyager part of me admires Ed stone when he was 35. Scientist became chief project manager. How many people can say well, no, my work is flips the solar system. Sure. I’ve been with this since I was 35 years old. I love that expansiveness.
Andrew Dubber
I’d like to think every radio broadcaster could say that, that their work is now leaving. Oh, which is wonderful.
Jay O’Callahan
Yes, that’s true. Going off in there. Yes, I do love. Yeah, yeah. Sense of flowing into one another’s lives.
Andrew Dubber
It seems like metaphor is the thing that it’s this idea that there is something bigger than us and that all these things that we do they mean something bigger, they mean something grander? Is it important for us to believe that there’s something bigger and something that we’re connected to? And you know, whether the fact of that or not as the case? Do you think that we need that?
Jay O’Callahan
Oh, I think absolutely. I think the wonderful moments in our life are when we’re part of something bigger, could be the birth could be the death of a parent was huge. My dad died, but it’s part of life is also death. It’s also laws. It’s also birth. It’s also discovery. It’s also surprise. It’s also you know, going to this play, amazing. How do they think of it Emily Dickinson How did she think of that? The cricket sang and set the sun. She does that all the time cricket to these little ordinary thing and then set the sun she jumps to the cosmic? Yeah. So in a way she is she is us. She’s lightening
Andrew Dubber
the universe in a grain of sand.
Jay O’Callahan
Yes, yes. The same thing. a grain of sand,
Andrew Dubber
and testing. Jay, thank you so much for your time today.
Jay O’Callahan
Thank you. You’re a wonderful interviewer. This is such a fun. Thank you. I really enjoy talking about this. It’s very close to me that
Andrew Dubber
That’s Jay O’Callahan storyteller to quite literally, the stars. And that’s the MTF podcast. Hope you enjoyed and if you did, please tell someone about it. Like Share rate review, that would certainly mean a lot. If this was the first one you’ve heard, make sure you go back and check out some others from AI researchers to authors, legendary musicians and inventors, music tech CEOs and academics. And of course, all with some wonderful stories to tell. Have a great week, and we’ll talk soon. Cheers.
