Ching-Ching Chen - Capitol Gains
Ching-Ching Chen is the Vice President of Business Development for Capitol Records. She was at SXSW to support the hackathon there and identify new opportunities for Capitol Records to partner with new ideas for the future. MTF Director Andrew Dubber sat down with her for a chat about how a historical label like Capitol can reinvent and future-proof itself in 2019.
AI Transcription
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
capitol records, music, startups, programme, capitol, big, business, content, artists, ching, studio, violin, call, capital, standpoint, tech, people, hackathon, blockchain, northwestern
SPEAKERS
Ching Ching Chen, Andrew Dubber
Andrew Dubber
Hi, I’m Dubber. I’m the director of Music Tech Fest, and this is the MTF podcast. Now I was at South by Southwest this past week where I caught up with Ching-Ching Chen. She’s the Vice President of Business Development for Capitol Records, where she’s built an Innovation Centre at the legendary capital tower and Hollywood started the first record label hosted hackathon and created an in house accelerator, Ching-Ching, and our team were at South by Southwest supporting the hackathon, where I was lucky enough to be one of the judges, and encouraging new ideas in music technology. I chatted with her about what a record label with a legacy like capital can do on the digital innovation front, and also how they’re supporting new business in this area, as well as her own history as a classical musician herself. Enjoy. Ching-Ching thanks so much for joining us today, your Vice President of Business Development of Capitol Records, what does business development mean and record label these days?
Ching Ching Chen
Business Development is a completely new term in the music industry. I’ll say, you know, two years ago, I started off at Capitol Records as Chief of Staff for Michelle Jubelirer, who’s our COO. And at that time, it was, you know, there’s a number of projects that range from operations to ancillary revenue generation, and really, you know, the thought was work, and how can we position ourselves as a record label of the future. And so, you know, started off as one off projects that here and there we decided and picked, what are our priorities for the year and, you know, before we knew it grew into a full 11 person, team as we are now and it’s incredible, but we focus on everything from, you know, digital strategy, d2c, e commerce, and then a lot of our tech partnerships and really thinking about, you know, where we are going towards in the future? What are some of our, you know, startups that we can work with, or, you know, tech companies that we can work with, to really amplify and, you know, create new experiences for artists?
Andrew Dubber
What’s the end goal for you? How do you know, when you’ve been successful?
Ching Ching Chen
How do I know when I’ve been successful? why I chose this job in the first place, you know, is, I love music so much, I grew up as a violinist and pianist, and I did opera. And, you know, musics was such a big part of making me feel something even the lowest point when the world feels like it’s going to set, you know, music, you know, has the ability to really connect across borders, but also, you know, every milestone in my life, I can attribute it to a particular song. And so, you know, for me, that was one of the biggest drivers because I was like, if I’m able to spread, how passionate I am about music, and if I’m able to then, you know, support artists that I really believe in to go and connect with fans and change their lives in some way, and to make this world a better place. That’s what’s important to me. And, you know, right now, on the business development front, we’re focused on, you know, bigger picture strategy, you know, but really, the major priority for us is, you know, we are talking to different tech partner about how can we create music video, the feature for artists? For us, it’s about, it’s about the future platform, and how can we use that to make experiences more immersive? And how can we really embed soundtracks into everyday life?
Andrew Dubber
Fantastic. I’m gonna go back to your sort of moments growing up with the different musical soundtracks as you go along, but I’m kind of interested. What did your parents do? And how did that affect affect what you ended up doing?
Ching Ching Chen
Yeah, sure. So my mom was actually a musician. So she played the Chinese guitar, which is called pipa. And so she toured the world, played for every president when China first opened up. So music was always a huge part of my upbringing. My dad was a PhD in physics. So completely opposite, though physics was actually my lowest grade I’ve ever gotten in any school. So don’t tell anybody that
Andrew Dubber
right. But you brought together music and taken a really serious way. So it sounds like you’re a really good mix of those two influences.
Ching Ching Chen
Yeah, no, for sure. So like growing up in the household, my mom and I music was our thing, you know, so like, piano even before I started official lessons, we played for fun because she actually didn’t get me on competitive music, the mute competitive music track and tell us nine, she, you know, music took over her childhood and she didn’t want that for me. And so funny enough, it wasn’t until I turned nine, discovered violin at school and I begged my mom put me in official lessons and before you know, it became like a obsessive competitive thing for me.
Andrew Dubber
Where was this?
Ching Ching Chen
I grew up in Orlando, Florida. Okay.
Andrew Dubber
Yeah. And was that a good place to be a musician in that kind of way?
Ching Ching Chen
Yeah, so um, there’s a really strong contingent of Russian violin teachers and piano teachers there and for me is an incredible you know, resource growing up. You would think like Orlando, Florida what but honestly had some of the most amazing teachers And professors who like really understood me knew how to bring the best out of me. And, you know, expected the best out of me.
Andrew Dubber
Right. And you said you were competitive? were you doing competitions on a on a big scale? Like nationally or anything like,
Ching Ching Chen
yeah, statewide, some national, but literally is going from gig to gig violin competition and competition. And yeah, it was, you know, it was a really crazy period of my life, you know, for a while it felt like being on stage was the more comfortable thing for me. And it’s crazy now, because I am the complete opposite. If you told me to go up on stage, I’m like, hell no. Well,
Andrew Dubber
so so the kind of the predictable trajectory will be, you’d end up in an orchestra of some kind what happened.
Ching Ching Chen
Um, so funny enough, I actually almost went to Northwestern. Because my violin idol, Rachel Barton Pine, her teachers taught there, I got into the adult degree programme there and was super excited about it. And, you know, actually committed paid my deposit everything. And like, the day before making my deadline decision, you know, I had a serious conversation with my mom about, you know, I’m torn between Northwestern and Duke, you know, like, I want to do music, but I’m also not sure, you know, performing for the rest of my life is what I want. Because my mom sat me down had really serious conversations about, like, I know, you love music as much as I did growing up, but when every day, there’s a pressure of being onstage, it’s very different. And you have to make that call for yourself, if that’s what you want in your life. And so we had really serious conversations about it. And actually, in the end, I like decided, instead of second guessing, I was going to pick out of a hat. So I picked between Duke and Northwestern, because I was like, you know, what my experience is what I make of it. And I there’s no point in looking back. And so I ended up clicking to get a hat. And before you knew it ended up economics major, still studied music. And, you know, ended up at Morgan Stanley after graduation, so very different trajectory.
Andrew Dubber
Wow, there was, obviously there was a thought that business would be one way that you could go, where did that side of things come in?
Ching Ching Chen
Um, in terms of set choosing to study economics?
Andrew Dubber
Yeah.
Ching Ching Chen
Well, I’m part of it is just familiar. Family pressure, I guess, being Asian, you know, growing up the expectations were doctor lawyer, or, you know, study economics, but figure out what you actually want to do with it. And so, you know, when I ended up at Duke, choosing economics as one of my degrees, I will say, I didn’t actually have that much rational thought into it, it was, okay, here’s one degree that I at least, I know, I’ll make my parents happy by studying it. And, you know, it’s kind of crazy how it took me to an initial early career in investment banking. But through all the resources I had on campus, I was able to talk to a meet a million amazing mentors, from Wall Street. And for me, it was just a great place to start off my career and learn as much as I can. I’m truly fortunate on of all the people I’ve come across during my lifetime, but I will say, you know, I’ve always been very people driven and some of the decisions I’ve made, and definitely very fortunate.
Andrew Dubber
Fantastic. Now, there’s a real tech element to what you do now, was there any point along the way we went, you know, what this? What’s happening with digital technology? What’s happening with innovation? What’s happening with startups? That’s really interesting for me, or did that just sort of get dumped on your plate when you arrived at Capitol?
Ching Ching Chen
Yeah. Um, so it kind of was a gradual evolve into the role that I’m currently in. So when I first started off at Capitol, like, there was no mandate that, hey, tech is what we’re gonna focus on, you know, at the end of sorry, end of 2017. You know, we got the mandate to say, hey, start an Innovation Centre, build programming around it, start talking to as many tech partners as you can, but even then it was let’s see where this takes us. And last year just kind of exploded. We launched in April, officially the programme itself, which consists of a number of hackathons and accelerator programme, as well as a number of workshops and educational resources for the community. And you know, before we knew it, the first ever record label sponsored hackathon in June, evolved into a full on conference at Capitol Records in December, and we kind of just sprinted till the end of the year. But definitely, you know, we see so much value and what we’ve created in terms of the ecosystem and the amazing partners we’ve come across, who’ve opened our eyes, you know, like, we never even understood, you know, the gravity of some of what our partners are working on in terms of, you know, cross 5g, blockchain, all of these experts who’ve spent so much time really investing in their fields. And you know, that we’re able to kind of work together with them to take their viewpoints and expertise to apply it to potential, you know, opportunities in the music space.
Andrew Dubber
And the stuff that’s coming out of the hackathon. Obviously, you said you have an accelerator programme, is this something that capital is partnering with these new companies and startups that are coming out of that owning them? They’re just sort of looking after them and the accelerator? How’s that work?
Ching Ching Chen
Yeah. So the whole goal, at least and where we’ve started on last year basis was core business opportunities that can be, you know, amplified. So everything that range from D to C, studio tech, fan engagement, these are startups that we identified that, you know, can help our business in some way. And so for us, it’s about facilitating that contract or, you know, getting them into our ecosystem to make sure that, you know, if we do need to do to see solution, they’re the ones we go to first. You know, let’s say on the studio front, we’re trying to think about amplifying AI and making it more automated. You know, those are the types of opportunities we’re really trying to connect, because I think those are two areas that matter a lot to us. But more importantly, I think the other thing that’s really big for us is licencing. I think what we’ve seen a shortage of over the last few years is new content based experiences, because everyone’s so terrified of will I get sued by a record label by using their content. And that’s what we’re really trying to create the ecosystem for to improve with our new sandbox licence over 14,000 tracks that startups can have access to and play around with. And it’s just, you know, really trying to encourage people think about new ways to really push content out.
Andrew Dubber
So the sandbox lessons is a really interesting idea. I know that aimed at something like that, with the prs in the UK, they they gave a licence to new startups to try new things with the independent record labels. But for something like capital to do that, with what do you say 14,000 tracks? That seems like a really sort of big, you know, flag to plant to say, okay, we think this is really important. What’s, what do you hope will happen as a result of that I use it or looking for the next, Spotify or the next, you know, music service that kind of uses catalogue in that way?
Ching Ching Chen
Yeah, no, definitely looking for new services, that amplifier catalogue. Like, we hate to say we’re looking for the next Spotify, because if we knew what we’re looking for, you know, we wouldn’t be here. Yeah, the idea is for us to get in front of so many fresh new perspectives, for things that we wouldn’t have thought of, you know, because there could be someone else out there that finds a creative way to share content of ours. And, you know, that’s one a new revenue stream to a new way of connecting and amplifying our content to new fans.
Andrew Dubber
To what extent are you aware that we’re not aware, but I guess, sort of cognizant of the the idea that, that some of the ideas that might come up might undermine the fact of Capitol Records as an organisation, you know, that we talk about disruptive innovation all the time, disruptive innovation disrupts something. And if you sort of seed a new idea, and it kind of starts to look like Actually, no one’s gonna need Capitol Records anymore? How do you deal with that sort of situation?
Ching Ching Chen
Well, I think the idea of us getting ahead of it is to make sure that we never are at the date for people ask, why do we need capitol records? I think, you know, specially, if you look at some of the companies that come through, if we can either own a piece of it, or we can be a part of the journey, and help the music ecosystem as a whole, I think that’s crucial. Because, you know, at the end of the day, artists are gonna want to keep signing to us if we’re bringing fresh ideas to them. But like, for example, let’s take awesome mix, which is one of the startups that came through our accelerator programme, their automated mastering mixing tool, and there you would think that’s disrupting our studio business. But you know, our studio business is actually, you know, way different target demographic, you’re talking about the very high end. And, you know, by actually supporting aspects, they’re not trying to displace our studio, you know, producers and engineers, that’s always going to be there. There’s always going to be, well, what we’re trying to get rid of is the Craigslist, people who claim they can do a mix for you for 80 bucks, and it’s complete shit. Right, you know. And so I think that’s something that we really want to make sure you know, that we one are cognizant of the potential ideas that come through the pipeline and can make sure that we are a huge part of the journey and don’t get blindsided but neither Napster but more importantly, I think, you know, being able to guide it in a way that That really helps amplify better than overall music ecosystem. You mentioned
Andrew Dubber
a couple of things already five g blockchain, what are the things you think hold the most promise for new radical innovations in this kind of field?
Ching Ching Chen
Well, for us, for sure 5g place that we’re incredibly excited about, with the improvements in speed, that leads to potential, you know, immersive content that’s easier to consume by the mass audiences, it also means production costs that could be way cheaper to produce, you know, and so for us, you mean,
Andrew Dubber
like remote recording or
Ching Ching Chen
so like, let’s take a 360 volumetric video, for example, right now, you know, that’s, we see very few artists doing that, because it would be exorbitantly expensive to one book out a large metal stage type, you know, studio, but then, you know, even like, from a production standpoint, you know, it’s slow, painful without 5g, like, it would just end up being not realistic for every day, you know, when we’re talking about getting volume out speed to market, it’s just not something that we would naturally gravitate towards VR is the same thing. You know, at every marketing meeting, someone brings up that idea, and then you realise that there’s not enough households that actually, you know, have hardware for people to consume that. And so, I think with 5g, people will be able to consume portable experiences, from an immersive standpoint, whether it’s holographic content, whether it’s 360 videos, whether it’s like even what do you call it, and emojis of artists faces, I think all of that will be game changing for us. And we’re incredibly excited to see what we’re able to do in that space.
Andrew Dubber
What about AI? How’s that shaping up and under the umbrella of capital?
Ching Ching Chen
- So, on the AI side, it’s been mainly at least online studio focus. So, you know, we, we have lots of conversations about creatives, always obviously being protective about, you know, their soul, what they feel about the content they’re creating. But at the end of the day, you know, it’s not meant to replace it, it’s meant to say, Okay, if you are booking out Capitol studios for a day, are we able to, you know, prevent you from ever having writer’s block by using AI to suggest that next chord or suggest that next lyric? I mean, those are the I think, spaces in areas that are incredibly exciting and compelling. And as a creator myself, like, I feel like that’s something that would really reduce the barriers of me feeling like I have to be in the perfect mindset all the time before I can start creating.
Andrew Dubber
Do you get to create?
Ching Ching Chen
I still am a wannabe creator. Yeah, but definitely not as much as I used to. Just goes, I hate to admit this, I go home and then I’m like, Oh, I’m just gonna watch the Kardashians or something brainless, but what do you call it? I think for me songwriting has always been an outlet. I can’t play violin like I used to. So it makes me depressed. So being able to like, you know, still spend time you know, really evoking emotions through the content creation standpoint, in terms of writing original content, it’s really a big outlet for me,
Andrew Dubber
how much is the the fact that you’re in the Capitol Records tower, this is really iconic thing for the music industry historically, how important is that symbolism in terms of what you do, and then the partners that you work with?
Ching Ching Chen
I think it’s huge, like, I mean, even myself, I walk in every day to work and I’m still like, pinch me now. Like, you feel the ghosts of Sinatra, Nat King Cole, like all the oldies, but also so many the, you know, biggest musicians of today, and and out of our tower. And so, you know, far from inspiration standpoint, I think it’s really amazing to take a place that’s been a tentpole of music history for the last 75 years, or 76 now, and really be able to augment its mission, but I think it’s unique to capital, because we’re the only universal label that still sits in a separate tower. We’re not in the Santa Monica offices. And, you know, from a space perspective, we’re able to do so much more from an activation standpoint, from a, you know, event standpoint, cetera,
Andrew Dubber
right, I noticed that there’s some really kind of powerful women in the lead, where you work And is that something you think is improving in the industry?
Ching Ching Chen
Yeah, I think you know, a capitol, it’s actually incredible. 50% of our senior leadership is female driven. And, you know, we actually just had an amazing day. billboard ad of all the woman who work at the tower. And I will say I almost forget that I’m in a male dominated industry when I’m at Capitol sometimes because of how many amazing supportive women we have. But I definitely think there’s a lot of attention being put on it, not just at Capitol, but across the music industry. And, you know, it’s also the more, you know, empowered woman that you do have who’ve, you know, made the ranks, the more we’re able, the more you know, people are able to help bring up other women in the industry. And I think that’s what’s really special about capitol, especially with under the leadership of Michelle Jubelirer, who’s our COO. Right,
Andrew Dubber
right. How’s it changing the culture? Do you think
Ching Ching Chen
in terms of culture, capitalist spent a lot of time especially over the last year and a half to think about ways we can really think about developing people in house, you know, and so, I think it’s really incredible, because, you know, everything from speaker events to employee engagement events, we had an international Woman’s Day event that we just hosted last Wednesday, and all of that kind of amazing programming that’s employee first driven. I think it’s a recent development. And, you know, we still have ways to go, but it’s definitely a lot of amazing, I guess, strides towards the right direction.
Andrew Dubber
What’s the big agenda for you over the next year?
Ching Ching Chen
They get done over the next year? I think, you know, the biggest thing is, we spent a lot of groundwork over the last year, building up partnerships from both a major tech Corporation standpoint, as well as startups. And you know, this year, it’s really about executing the heck out of a lot of these, you know, opportunities to bring it back to our artists and, you know, be able to help impact them in a positive way. I think if we’re able to do that, that’s a major win in my books.
Andrew Dubber
Fantastic. And is your mom proud,
Ching Ching Chen
is my mom proud. I hope she is. Yeah, no, see, what do you call it? She visited me Actually, when I when I first told her I’m moving out to LA. She was like, What? What? Why are you leaving Finance? Why are you leaving New York. But it’s funny when she visited me at the Universal Music Group offices when I was interning few years back. After her visit, she was like, Okay, I get it. You’re in your element. This is, you know, industry and subject matter you’re so passionate about and I’m very happy for you.
Andrew Dubber
Congratulations, and thanks so much for joining us today. Perfect. Thank you. Ching-Ching Chen, VP of business development at Capitol Records. And that’s the MTF podcast. Now, Ching-Ching wasn’t the only person I chatted to a South by Southwest and we have some absolutely legendary guests coming up on the podcast over the next few weeks. So don’t forget to subscribe, and I’ll catch you here next time. All the best, and have a great week. Cheers.
